Likes and Dislikes

[Thanee]

So, with 4th Edition regularily available in stores for a week now (here at least), I have bought me a gift set and overall it seems like an interesting game. It's very different, but that doesn't have to be bad.

Here are some points I like/dislike about it, so far. Maybe you can post something similar with only short phrases (no lenghty discussion, please, we got plenty of that already and you find almost no information in these threads, unless you read them top to bottom, which takes too long ).

Likes:
- streamlined and fast
- many options for all classes
- stronger start, less drastic advancement
- better balance between casters and non-casters
- healing surges (short rest instead of out-of-combat-heal-machines)

Dislikes:
- feels a bit too video-gamey (hope this is just an initial impression)
- lack of fluff (only rules text, no descriptions, monsters often lack descriptions)
- too combat/tactical focused (most abilities are attacks, very little utility, often extremely short ranges/durations)
- saving throws (same roll for almost everyone)

What are yours?

Bye
Thanee

 

[The Human Target]

I agree with all your points actually.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Likes

Streamlined
Intuitive numbering of powers/spells that matches PC levels
Dragonborn
Art
Most, but not all, of the editing

Dislikes
See my post #50 in this thread:

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=230435&page=4

and post #105 in this thread:

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=230206&page=7&pp=15


And no, I don't care what may or may not be added in future supplements- a lot of my complaints are about things from the Core that are no longer there or have been severely altered.

IOW, I probably won't be buying those supplements.

 

[Wik]

Likes:

1) Half-elves seem to be useful again.
2) Races actually seem to be alright.
3) Putting together an encounter is easy with the "XP budget" approach.
4) The idea of making combats naturally cinematic
5) How classes can combo... as an example, our rogue and our warlord worked out quite a combo. The rogue hits with an attack that leaves her opponent dazed until the end of her next action. The warlord than uses an ability that lets the rogue make a basic attack... so she gets sneak attack damage. Then, she uses another ability that lets her make an attack against her foe... getting sneak attack damage.
6) Retraining your character. It seems like, unlike 3e, you're not "Building towards level 20" or 30, but playing characters a bit more organically.
7) The text is less rulesy, meaning DMs can figure it out on their own... leaning towards more DM adjucation, hopefully.
8) The monsters. While I miss some monsters right now, I'm happy with the mix, for the most part.
9) Minions.

What I dislike:

1) How the setting is written into game rules. Why are there bahamut-specific feats!?
2) The divide between combat and non-combat. It seems like characters are completely different people if someone isn't swinging a sword at them.
3) Saving Throws. Kinda lame, if it's 50/50, regardless of what happens.
4) Automatic effects. An attack that knocks the opponent prone... whether he's a dragon or a halfling. Bleh.
5) How skill challenges promise to be exciting, but how in reality, they kinda suck. You don't get challenges that play out according to the example. Instead, they seem to suck the RP out of the encounter entirely, since players know they can just rely on a roll. In my experience so far, mind you.
6) The DMG's dungeon. I love it when their sample dungeon breaks most of the "good adventure design" rules they'd described only a few pages earlier.
7) The incompleteness of it all. It always seemed like there were two pages missing at the end of each section... especially in the DMG
8) How hard it is to create a damned character! Both me and my best friend took a very long time to find out how many powers we started with... only to find it in the "advancing your character" table! Starting gold is likewise hidden in a line of text. And starting skills? You get trained in a skill automatically, but then that same skill is in the list of skills you can choose to train in? What?
9) There's no listing for what [w] means, or what [ts] means, or whatnot. Or, at least, I can't find it. I know what [w] means, obviously, but I had to guess that [ts] means times.
10) I'm still a little lost on whether a paladin can lay on hands himself.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

IIRC, [ts] is a "typo" in the widest sense, as it is basically mark-up code for the multiplication "x" sign. [w] is explained somewhere, but don't ask me where.

I pretty much like the organization of the books, but there are still things that should be easier to find, and not just stumbled upon. Though I believe if you read the book from start to end, you won't miss anything. But who does that with a gaming book?

 

[Steely Dan]

One thing I particularly love about 4th Ed is the clear and tight writing (and good editing). Every previous edition of this game has often had cryptic/vague/byzantine (not clear and tight writing on my part) writing and sloppy editing, IMO.

 

[Wormwood]

Likes: playing 4e

Dislikes: discussing 4e

 

[Morrus]

- saving throws (same roll for almost everyone)

They're not saving throws, they're a badly named duration mechanic. If you dislike 'em that much, simply rename them "Duration" and call 'em 3 rounds (or whatever the statistical average is). Voila - 3.5E!

The "saving throw" portion of your 3.5 character is your defence scores.

 

[Morrus]

Likes: playing 4e

Dislikes: discussing 4e

And you're here... why?

 

[Fallen Seraph]

This may sound silly but the only thing I have found I dislike currently is lack of firearms and no technological rules (though I am currently handling this with custom rituals and Skill Challenges).