4E List of Potential New Martial Practices

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Another classic ritual ...
Rope Trick
My thought is martial might be able to one up this ritual ... instead of being able to hide near perfectly ( though that might be doable also) so you can recover daily resources. What if you can simply recover daily resources is achieve an extended rest in 10 minutes less one healing this one has the King Arthur / Warlord type in mind and would be at Rope trick level

Inspired Recovery level 12 Diplomacy
"channeled life force is far less limited than most understand"
invigorate the entire group of allies (the allies might make endurance checks to gain extended rest normal resources less 1 healing surge)

Is it worth it with the healing surge cost?
 
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Another classic ritual ...
Rope Trick
My thought is martial might be able to one up this ritual ... instead of being able to hide near perfectly ( though that might be doable also) so you can recover daily resources. What if you can simply recover daily resources is achieve an extended rest in 10 minutes less one healing this one has the King Arthur / Warlord type in mind and would be at Rope trick level

Inspired Recovery level 12 Diplomacy
"channeled life force is far less limited than most understand"
invigorate the entire group of allies (the allies might make endurance checks to gain extended rest normal resources less 1 healing surge)

Is it worth it with the healing surge cost?
Sure, I mean its unlikely you'd use this sort of thing unless your party was mostly down more than one surge anyway, so chances are it isn't really a 'cost' at all. Just limit it to one use per day, or even one per week or something like that.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Sure, I mean its unlikely you'd use this sort of thing unless your party was mostly down more than one surge anyway, so chances are it isn't really a 'cost' at all. Just limit it to one use per day, or even one per week or something like that.
Well in a sense if the alternative is having all your surges because you spent gold/residuum on creating a pocket dimension and the time to have a full rest; In that sense It is a cost.

I was thinking the usage would be limited since what you get from it is an extended rest.

If the DM is playing with restricted story pacing the Martial practice is situationally hands down better.. if the DM makes casual with gathering resources for rituals AND isnt doing that then the rope trick is better.
 
Well in a sense if the alternative is having all your surges because you spent gold/residuum on creating a pocket dimension and the time to have a full rest; In that sense It is a cost.

I was thinking the usage would be limited since what you get from it is an extended rest.
I recently gave the PCs an item (well, they bought an upgrade for a vehicle, describing what they wanted, not what they wanted it to do) that gives a partial benefit of a long rest when you use it - you can get back hps/surges or powers, not both.

This practice seems like a candidate for recharging power , maybe hps, but not surges - nor re-setting action points or milestones. (Each subject can spend a surge to re-gain hps & one daily power, perhaps?)

Taking no time to speak of seems like a big deal, and the 'cost' of a surge when you are getting back all your other surges feels off. If it were a 'perfect hiding'/'safehouse' kind of practice that got you a push-button but otherwise normal rest like several rituals already do, I could see just ending it with the practitioner down one surge as cost.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
I recently gave the PCs an item (well, they bought an upgrade for a vehicle, describing what they wanted, not what they wanted it to do) that gives a partial benefit of a long rest when you use it - you can get back hps/surges or powers, not both.

This practice seems like a candidate for recharging power , maybe hps, but not surges - nor re-setting action points or milestones. (Each subject can spend a surge to re-gain hps & one daily power, perhaps?)
That to me sounds like a way of having the practice have scaling effects not just boom you are able to rest. Note we already have trance doing somewhat similar safer and faster but not perfect in safety nor do I have it going below 2 hours at fastest.

Taking no time to speak of seems like a big deal, and the 'cost' of a surge when you are getting back all your other surges feels off. If it were a 'perfect hiding'/'safehouse' kind of practice that got you a push-button but otherwise normal rest like several rituals already do, I could see just ending it with the practitioner down one surge as cost.
"Taking no time to speak of seems like a big deal" ---> remember we will not get that ability for travel... ie every teleport analog has to be somewhat gimped in comparison.
A teleport spell will often get no time to speak of for travel AND versimiltude
is our master we cannot have it, grumble grumble
 
"Taking no time to speak of seems like a big deal" ---> remember we will not get that ability for travel... ie every teleport analog has to be somewhat gimped in comparison.
I don't see how that relates. Also, a little Schrodinger's Preparation and *bing* "Oh, no, we're not going to Neverwinter, we've been in Neverwinter the whole time!









Why yes, I have played way too much Champions! and Mage: the Ascension. ;)
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
I don't see how that relates.
Unfortunately it is possible there will be things that Martial practices make sense to do better than rituals like affecting the inner landscape of heros and vice versi like instant travel.

I still think it may be a situation benefit in both cases...

Also, a little Schrodinger's Preparation and *bing* "Oh, no, we're not going to Neverwinter, we've been in Neverwinter the whole time!

Why yes, I have played way too much Champions! and Mage: the Ascension. ;)
mmmmmm yeh, and probably, LOL


And there is also that not everyone likes undead kitties
 
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Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Unfortunately it is possible there will be things that Martial practices make sense to do better than rituals like affecting the inner landscape of heros and vice versi like instant travel.

I still think it may be a situation benefit in both cases...
A solution that might make Tony and HERO players happier, might be to make the Martial practices inferior teleports atleast 5 levels lower than their nearest analog and the martial practices superior heroic manipulations 5 levels higher than a nearest analog. (gains those degrees of effectiveness 5 levels after or before a ritual might).

Thing is past a certain point if it isnt reasonable to scale the practice it becomes reasonable to enable a check to reduce endurance costs.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
ritual Portal Jump level 6 ....Might have an analog called "The Old Alley Oooop" OR "Dwarf Tossing".
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
A solution that might make Tony and HERO players happier, might be to make the Martial practices inferior teleports atleast 5 levels lower than their nearest analog and the martial practices superior heroic manipulations 5 levels higher than a nearest analog. (gains those degrees of effectiveness 5 levels after or before a ritual might).

Thing is past a certain point if it isnt reasonable to scale the practice it becomes reasonable to enable a check to reduce endurance costs.
inspiredrestoration.png
[MENTION=996]Tony Vargas[/MENTION]
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
The difference between my idea and this ritual is .. healing surge cost and I didnt have it as 1 hour. And based on Diplomacy instead of healing.
 
A solution that might make Tony and HERO players happier, might be to make the Martial practices inferior teleports atleast 5 levels lower than their nearest analog and the martial practices superior heroic manipulations 5 levels higher than a nearest analog.
My concern is just that the level & cost of the ritual be appropriate to the effect...
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
My concern is just that the level & cost of the ritual be appropriate to the effect...
Well the value of healing surges is nebulous starting a day down 1 is probably not so wonderful even if you get to start the day earlier.

I was considering a level 12 effect but we know now that we have a ritual which is virtually identical at level 16... (this corresponds with your thinking that taking much less time should have a cost)
and also corresponds fairly closely with my 5 levels thought.

I am thinking I need to make sure that a transcendental meditation of 1 hour is possible while still costing at level 16. Trance has a cost per person though so in that regards it's rather expensive as martial practices goes but you can be awake and guarding allies so it still has benefits if you are the only one with trance. Inspired Recuperation (the new idea) if it doesn't restore all the subjects healing surges is also costed like trance, but is more party friendly.

I think including lower level effects that lead up to the level 16 full rest effect like you mentioned is a very useful idea.
 
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Well the value of healing surges is nebulous starting a day down 1 is probably not so wonderful even if you get to start the day earlier.

I was considering a level 12 effect but we know now that we have a ritual which is virtually identical at level 16... (this corresponds with your thinking that taking much less time should have a cost)
and also corresponds fairly closely with my 5 levels thought.

I am thinking I need to make sure that a transcendental meditation of 1 hour is possible while still costing at level 16. Trance has a cost per person though so in that regards it's rather expensive as martial practices goes but you can be awake and guarding allies so it still has benefits if you are the only one with trance. Inspired Recuperation (the new idea) if it doesn't restore all the subjects healing surges is also costed like trance, but is more party friendly.

I think including lower level effects that lead up to the level 16 full rest effect like you mentioned is a very useful idea.
I would think of it as kind of more like a super potent short rest, in terms of resource management. You're going to pull this out when you're down to the dregs and there's still one or more encounters required to bag the BBEG. Can't afford the time for the actual rest. Would be NICE not to be down a surge, but down 1 is a lot better than down 5! The cost is steep, pretty much identical to Raise Dead, but well worth it in that climactic pinch.

Given the price I'd expect you'll use it 1-3 times in a campaign, but that's kinda par for most rituals/practices anyway, so I think it works.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
but well worth it in that climactic pinch.

Given the price I'd expect you'll use it 1-3 times in a campaign, but that's kinda par for most rituals/practices anyway, so I think it works.
That I think is the target... how often it is useful also seems dependent on the DM and players but that is pretty normal of rituals/practices.
 
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So, a while back the epic-level wizard in my game went on a mad spending spree and bought a bunch of rituals. Last night he went to use one, 'Thorough Search' and I'm like, waitaminit, that doesn't sound like a ritual, that's a martial practice. He'd gotten a couple by mistake, and would've made good use of that one. But, nope, not a martial practitioner. Amusing.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
So, a while back the epic-level wizard in my game went on a mad spending spree and bought a bunch of rituals. Last night he went to use one, 'Thorough Search' and I'm like, waitaminit, that doesn't sound like a ritual, that's a martial practice. He'd gotten a couple by mistake, and would've made good use of that one. But, nope, not a martial practitioner. Amusing.
Some of this set of Martial Practices have things not currently done in a ritual so there is that ;)
 
Some of this set of Martial Practices have things not currently done in a ritual so there is that ;)
Yeah, I'm still having trouble seeing a dividing line really. I mean, there are things that seem more 'practice' than 'ritual', but you can lampshade ANYTHING as 'magic'. Likewise if you accept a bit of a fuzzy definition, as I would say you do, then there's not a vast amount of stuff that couldn't be a practice (though I think practice is a bit smaller in scope than ritual just because of the 'magic does everything' problem, but that always exists). I'm still looking for a better way to partition that in HoML, I'm just not satisfied with the way it is parsed up in 4e anymore. Especially when I've come to believe that this class of resource should really follow more of a 'pay to change the plot/narrative/setting in a specific way that plausibly fits the ritual' vs 'make a check for a specific degree of an effect after paying XYZ'. Its a hard question though!
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Yeah, I'm still having trouble seeing a dividing line really. I mean, there are things that seem more 'practice' than 'ritual', but you can lampshade ANYTHING as 'magic'. Likewise if you accept a bit of a fuzzy definition, as I would say you do, then there's not a vast amount of stuff that couldn't be a practice (though I think practice is a bit smaller in scope than ritual just because of the 'magic does everything' problem, but that always exists).
I didnt say couldn't be done in a ritual just arent ;), AND I am not yet giving in to wide spread use of Tony's schrodingers preparedness effect. LOL.

I think the Batman technique used in limited fashion is interesting ... but used pervasively could be tacky
 
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Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
There is another set of practices that might found... a number of the rituals particularly those with a ranger flavor to them many of those should have been practices in the first place.

I nominate "Pass without a trace" as bloody obvious example.
 

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