Living 4th Edition Discussion Thread

Graf · Sep 18, 2008

Eladrins are like awesome though (15th or 25th or something?)... So maybe they kill the drow and the elves all hide behind their skirts...

Seriously that's a very good point though.

Graf · Sep 18, 2008

PS there is a new character creation guide, posted by the facilitator account (cause that's best practice).

It significantly expands (not so good was already long) a lot of issues that have come up over the past few days (good?).
Please provide feedback if you can.

Dunamin · Sep 18, 2008

L4W Facilitator said:
Some examples
Human Wizard -- you are encouraged to use Callen's math section since he uses all the templates and is brilliantly laid out
Hobgoblin Warlord
Eladrin Paladin

Hehe, I see Callen is the new Quagmire...

I think templates are fine, but some seem a bit needlessly detailed. I mean, the math of Powers To Hit is usually just a series of identical copies of a basic attack, possibly against another defense. And is a table really necessary when you only have one row (Health)?

I guess its just a matter of personal taste, though I thought one of the principles behind 4E was brief and simple overviews...

(Sorry to sound critical, I very much appreciate the hard work that has gone into creating these templates.)

Graf · Sep 18, 2008

For the record that was 100% my opinion; its veracity sits upon my head alone.
I realize you've done a lot of approvals and if you say it's OK then I suppose I should agree.

My personal feeling is that:

[d]--[/d]

Hit point math is not simple... 1st level is, but at 4th or 5th level I'd have to use a calculator or scrap to make sure. (In the KK games like... half the people had the wrong hit points.... People suck at math, especially when the keep making changes to stats and feats)

Which makes me think... why should i have to...?
If the template does it for me I just check the inputs.

[d]--[/d]

The problem with powers to hit is that it's a pattern that is 80%~100% correct. Every other character or so has one power that's different; multiclass, dilettante, warlock/paladin/cleric using off stat powers....

People who are frustrated (wizards, who only use Int) can just copy and paste but there are other classes and situations for whom it's not true.

[d]--[/d]

Asking people to spend an extra 5 minutes clearly filling out their choices isn't a big burden (to my mind); and it's not a requirement; also note the word "encouraged".

I've happily approved characters (fighters at least) who had a really simple math section for powers to hit.

covaithe · Sep 18, 2008

Dunamin said:
I guess it might be prudent to have a seperate thread where character review can be discussed and approvals announced. I'll start one up.

Myself, I'm inclined to do most of the communication by email. I'm heavily influenced by LEW's character judging process, where I'm helping out at the moment as a character-reviewer-in-training, and where the whole process is done by email. It seems to work a bit more smoothly there than it has here, with posting it in the forums. It's possible that a dedicated thread could work just as well, though, if the other char judges would prefer. But you're right that we should take it out of this thread.

Graf · Sep 18, 2008

Plus Callin's sheet has lots of other stuff... like the way that he's laid out the powers for reference. It's very clear to a DM where a power came from AND the links to the compendium are right there.

If we start accepting more classes/feats/races (which some people have expressed interest in) it'd be nice to have that sort of easy to use, easy to refence layout as a default.

garyh · Sep 18, 2008

Graf said:
This thread is now 16 pages long... which is intimidating... do we want to think about a new thread?

I'm thinking that's a good idea. We want new folks to have a relatively accessible place to jump in with questions or ideas.

garyh · Sep 18, 2008

Dunamin said:
Hehe, I see Callen is the new Quagmire...

I think templates are fine, but some seem a bit needlessly detailed. I mean, the math of Powers To Hit is usually just a series of identical copies of a basic attack, possibly against another defense. And is a table really necessary when you only have one row (Health)?

I guess its just a matter of personal taste, though I thought one of the principles behind 4E was brief and simple overviews...

(Sorry to sound critical, I very much appreciate the hard work that has gone into creating these templates.)

I agree with Graf. It may seem simple now, but with leveling up, eventual new rules options, etc., I think it's fair to ask the player to do this so the character reviewer doesn't have to reverse engineer the character.