Lizardfolk = ECL 4?!?!

[Axiomatic Unicorn]

Oh, I'm quite willing to see these kinds of points. I'm warming to +4 ECL a bit, although I would rather see a compromise at ECL +3. Mainly my example was to show that ECL 4 for a half-dragon is unbalanced and that the designers need to keep tweaking if they want to produce good ECL numbers.

OK. I agree with you completely.

I certainly won't try to claim that using +3 ECL in a particular game is somehow "wrong." More power to you in getting your DM to accept that. I probably would not. But I would rather have a good player with a cool character than quibble over this level of detail, as long as the other players were also content.

 

[CRGreathouse]

Well, that's the problem. According to the DMG, monster characters only get equipment according to their class levels, not including monster ECL:

"A creature with no class levels has the standard gear for a creature of its kind. A creature with class levels has equipment worth an amount based on the total of those class levels (see Table 2-24 : Starting Equipment for PCs above 1st level). " (p. 24)

Of course, Tooth and Claw may change that aspect of monster character creation (I certainly hope so!), but as it stands now....

This is different in FR, which has the ECL rules everyone is actually using (unless you base character level off total HD, that is ).

 

[Wolfspider]

This is different in FR, which has the ECL rules everyone is actually using (unless you base character level off total HD, that is ).

I really have to get the FR book. It sounds like it has lots of nice goodies in it....

 

[thundershot]

Not just FR, but everything published since that contans races, it seems. Manual of the Planes, Oriental Adventures, and Forgotten Realms all use the same rules that will be in Tooth & Claw.


Chris

 

[drnuncheon]

DM's who stick to their plans of using demons and DR critters when none of my Animal Companinons can scratch them (1d8+1 vs. DR 10 = a long day)

You just need to use your little furry (or scal, or whatever) friends more effectively! There's plenty of combat actions that don't depend on raw damage for their effectiveness.

Aid Another - if you're not going to do damage anyway, why not give one of the other party members a +2 to hit? Or a +2 AC?

Bull Rush - keep them away form you and the other spellcasters

Disarm - they train police dogs to do it, why not an animal companion?

Grapple & Pin - for bears and constrictor snakes, anyway. Who cares if you're not doing damage? You're stopping them from attacking.

Trip - bonuses to attack prone opponents, and it takes actions to get back up.


Hope these ideas help a bit!

J

 

[Wolfspider]

Figures. I don't have any of those books, considering that I've been broke for most of the last six months. I have seen the ECL rules in Dragon, although they call it "Level Adjustment." I assume they're the same thing.

 

[thundershot]

Level Adjustment is the +3 or +4 or whatnot.

ECL is just what the characters total effective character level is.

Level 10 LizardFolk would be (by Dragon) 14 ECL.

The ECL XP charts are just that.. XP charts.

For instance, a character with 15,000 XP would be
6th level normally
5th level with ECL +1 (Aasimar, Tiefling)
4th level with ECL +2
3rd level with ECL +3
2nd level with ECL +4
1st level with ECL +5

and so on..

 

[Zarrock God of Evil]

Especially considering that a half-dragon will get the powers and abilites of its template IN ADDITION to the powers and abilites of the base creature, and if that's an elf, dwarf, or other standard PHB race, that makes them even more powerful with no increase at all to ECL.

A half-dragon elf or dwarf is no more powerful than a half-dragon human. If you wanted to play a half-dragon lizard man on the other hand, you can waive goodbye to eight levels....

-Zarrock

 

[Axiomatic Unicorn]

A half-dragon elf or dwarf is no more powerful than a half-dragon human. If you wanted to play a half-dragon lizard man on the other hand, you can waive goodbye to eight levels....

-Zarrock

I think you missed his point. A half dragon not only gets all the half dragon abilites, it also gets the human (or elf or dwarf or...) abilities. And still it is "only" a +4 ECL?!?!

 

[Wolfspider]

A half-dragon elf or dwarf is no more powerful than a half-dragon human. If you wanted to play a half-dragon lizard man on the other hand, you can waive goodbye to eight levels....

Yes...umm...exactly. That's what I said, right? Yes. When you add a template to a standard PHB race, you have to realize that they get special abilities already in addition to what the template gives them, although the ECL doesn't take into consideration these abilities, the standard races all being ECL 0.