Lizardmen and Two-Weapon Fighting

[reapersaurus]

So a Lizardman gets 2 claws and a bite attack.
The 2 claws get full STR bonus, bite gets half (from Dragon 292).

Put one weapon in his hand, it becomes the primary attack, and gets Full STR bonus, the claw and bite are now secondary, so -5 and 1/2 STR.

What happens when he fights with 2 weapons?

 

[Thanee]

I'd simply replace one off-hand claw attack with an off-hand weapon attack.

Bye
Thanee

 

[reapersaurus]

Thanks for the idea Thanee.

If anyone else gives a ruleing, what I'm getting to will be:
If this 2 weapon fighting style for a lizardman requires Ambidexterity and 2WF, than 2 questions:

1) Wouldn't it require Multidexterity and Multi-Weapon fighting, since there are 3 natural weapons involved?
2) What happens if the Lizardman takes a level of Ranger?
Is he able to use both weapons and his bite attack?

And lastly, a clarification:
Dragon 292 stated unequivocably that natural weapons NEVER get iterative attacks (+7/+2).
Just checking.

 

[Happiest_Sadist]

He can't take multidexterity or multiweapon fighting, as they require more than 2 arms. However he does get multiattack which changes his bite from -5 to -2.
He may use his claws as a light weapon in his off hand(as TWF), or as a secondary natural attack(-2 1/2, str).

Regardless of what weapons he uses or dosn't use, he may make his bite attack at -2 (-5 w/o multiattack).

 

[reapersaurus]

but what about when he uses weapons in his claws?

 

[Astlin]

but what about when he uses weapons in his claws?

From the SRD:
"Attacks: 2 claws +2 melee (or greatclub +2 melee), bite +0 melee; or javelin +1 ranged"

If you wield a weapon, you are treated just as any other armed character.

The way that I see it working is like this:
1) Claw/Claw (normal), Bite (-2)
2) One weapon
3) One weapon and a claw (or bite) as an off-hand attack. Use normal two-weapon fighting rules. Multi-attack does not apply here since you are not using three natural weapons.
4) One claw (or bite) and a weapon as an off-hand attack. Again, using the two-weapon fighting rules.

Natural weapons also do not benefit from any additional attacks you would get as you gain levels.

As a side note: A nice (but way overpriced imo) item for anyone with natural attacks (and Monks) are the Amulets of Mighty Fist (SnF).

Astlin

 

[reapersaurus]

incorrect.

From Dragon 292, in a 1/2 page or more sidebar explicitly detailing Multiple Natural Attacks, it says quite clearly that :
"Should a creature with multiple natural attacks use a weapon, the weapon is always considered the creature's primary attack. All otrher natural attacks suffer the -5 penalty and contribute 1/2 STR damage."

It goes on to specify that he could attack with a weapon, and also the claw and bite (tail in the case of Saurials).

And the SRD is really not a very valid place i think to figure this rules query out, unfortunately, but thankls for trying.

You're telling me that nobody here knows exactly how natural attacks work when using 2 weapons?
And here I thought I had missed someplace where they made things clear with 3E rules. LOL

 

[0-hr]

And the SRD is really not a very valid place i think to figure this rules query out, unfortunately, but thankls for trying.

Hehe, the SRD is not a valid source but Dragon Magazine is?! Yea, thanks for trying.

 

[Astlin]

Hehe, the SRD is not a valid source but Dragon Magazine is?! Yea, thanks for trying.

Thanks Ki. I had to delete my reply before I sent it... it was not as tactful.

Astlin

 

[reapersaurus]

Hehe, the SRD is not a valid source but Dragon Magazine is?! Yea, thanks for trying.

a valid place to figure it out - as in the SRD having this kind of information in it.

In my experience, the amount of information the SRD includes is spotty at best, even compared to already-published information.

The sidebar in Dragon 292 as far as I'm aware is the single largest place that natural attacks rules have been addressed.
If anyone can point me to a source that has more detailed information to make it clear, I'm sure I wouldn't be the only one that would be thankful.