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*Dungeons & Dragons
LMoP - Goblin Ambush - Stealth and Surprise
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<blockquote data-quote="Rya.Reisender" data-source="post: 7006320" data-attributes="member: 6801585"><p>I do think that the LMoP module does a perfect job at introducing all the different mechanics one-by-one while slowing teaching both DM and players all the special situations you can come into.</p><p></p><p>The very first thing the module teaches you is how to handle traveling: Ask you players who takes the lead, who takes the rear, who drives the wagon, etc.</p><p>Through this you already establish which characters even have a chance to spot something.</p><p></p><p>The reason the goblins can't be surprised is simple. The goblins are actually waiting for targets to ambush. The moment the group travels there, they will already see the wagon as potential target and consequently be aware of a threat.</p><p></p><p>In general LMoP teaches you that surprise is (and should be) a very situational thing. It can only happen at very few encounters in the module. It will actually specifically say sometimes "these NPCs don't pay much attention so if you do this and that, they will be surprised".</p><p>Why this is good? Because if you make surprise just rolling stealth vs. passive perception, then your PCs will very quickly resign to permanently telling you that they are being stealthy to get a chance at surprise at every single battle. That can really ruin the flow and the module kinda wants to discourage that while still providing situations with actual stealth rolls.</p><p></p><p>The very first combat is teaching players more about avoiding surprise:</p><p>- You can decide to not travel at a fast pace so you don't get -5 to passive perception</p><p>- Only the PCs actively looking for threats will get the attempt to roll perception actively (if passive perception not high enough)</p><p>- Might even factor in what the PCs said they are doing (e.g. only front guards can spot enemies)</p><p></p><p>Also generally about surprise: As the others said, enemies are only surprised if they don't notice any threat. That means all PCs need to be stealthy and all need to beat passive perception with a stealth roll.</p><p></p><p>Surprise actually happens rarely up to the point where it's better to not "generally" bother with it and do it more like in the LMoP module where there are very specific battles where surprise works due to context.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Rya.Reisender, post: 7006320, member: 6801585"] I do think that the LMoP module does a perfect job at introducing all the different mechanics one-by-one while slowing teaching both DM and players all the special situations you can come into. The very first thing the module teaches you is how to handle traveling: Ask you players who takes the lead, who takes the rear, who drives the wagon, etc. Through this you already establish which characters even have a chance to spot something. The reason the goblins can't be surprised is simple. The goblins are actually waiting for targets to ambush. The moment the group travels there, they will already see the wagon as potential target and consequently be aware of a threat. In general LMoP teaches you that surprise is (and should be) a very situational thing. It can only happen at very few encounters in the module. It will actually specifically say sometimes "these NPCs don't pay much attention so if you do this and that, they will be surprised". Why this is good? Because if you make surprise just rolling stealth vs. passive perception, then your PCs will very quickly resign to permanently telling you that they are being stealthy to get a chance at surprise at every single battle. That can really ruin the flow and the module kinda wants to discourage that while still providing situations with actual stealth rolls. The very first combat is teaching players more about avoiding surprise: - You can decide to not travel at a fast pace so you don't get -5 to passive perception - Only the PCs actively looking for threats will get the attempt to roll perception actively (if passive perception not high enough) - Might even factor in what the PCs said they are doing (e.g. only front guards can spot enemies) Also generally about surprise: As the others said, enemies are only surprised if they don't notice any threat. That means all PCs need to be stealthy and all need to beat passive perception with a stealth roll. Surprise actually happens rarely up to the point where it's better to not "generally" bother with it and do it more like in the LMoP module where there are very specific battles where surprise works due to context. [/QUOTE]
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