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LMoP - Goblin Ambush - Stealth and Surprise
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<blockquote data-quote="Rya.Reisender" data-source="post: 7007579" data-attributes="member: 6801585"><p>That why it specifically states that the goblins can't be surprised and even explains how to determine if the PCs are surprised.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Hmm, guess there don't have to be. For me there are rounds outside combat too, except they have longer intervals (e.g. 1 minute per round in dungeons as suggested by the rules). A round basically consists of me asking the players what they want to do, they telling me and then me determining what happens.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I guess that's true, though I never had the situation where none of the PCs wanted to approach the bodies. What do they want to do otherwise?</p><p>In any case at the point of the goblin ambush the goblins have already spotted you. Even if the PCs now decide to explore, the goblins will know they are there and they can't hide from the goblins because they don't know the goblins are there.</p><p>If the goblins are spotted, it's very likely they attack even if no PC approaches the dead horses.</p><p></p><p></p><p>DM can decide, so yeah, just say they aren't surprised. You don't need to give your players a reason why.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Stop this at the root. You don't need to tolerate malicious player behavior.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I still suggest to keep it at "DM determines surprise" instead of establishing a fixed rule.</p><p></p><p>If your players absolutely want it, tell them they all need to be stealthy in order for surprise to work. All players roll stealth at the start of combat, if all results are higher than the passive perception of a creature then that creature is surprised. Then you have a clear rule, but it will result in what I described above.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Rya.Reisender, post: 7007579, member: 6801585"] That why it specifically states that the goblins can't be surprised and even explains how to determine if the PCs are surprised. Hmm, guess there don't have to be. For me there are rounds outside combat too, except they have longer intervals (e.g. 1 minute per round in dungeons as suggested by the rules). A round basically consists of me asking the players what they want to do, they telling me and then me determining what happens. I guess that's true, though I never had the situation where none of the PCs wanted to approach the bodies. What do they want to do otherwise? In any case at the point of the goblin ambush the goblins have already spotted you. Even if the PCs now decide to explore, the goblins will know they are there and they can't hide from the goblins because they don't know the goblins are there. If the goblins are spotted, it's very likely they attack even if no PC approaches the dead horses. DM can decide, so yeah, just say they aren't surprised. You don't need to give your players a reason why. Stop this at the root. You don't need to tolerate malicious player behavior. I still suggest to keep it at "DM determines surprise" instead of establishing a fixed rule. If your players absolutely want it, tell them they all need to be stealthy in order for surprise to work. All players roll stealth at the start of combat, if all results are higher than the passive perception of a creature then that creature is surprised. Then you have a clear rule, but it will result in what I described above. [/QUOTE]
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