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Message: <blockquote data-quote="jasper" data-source="post: 7007764" data-attributes="member: 277">Ok Osirisx let see if I got all your problems and concerns down.All players are new, and you using the started module. No problem here but like the movies, sometimes modules do things which break the normal rules. This was a hot (big explosions and thousands of arrows in the air) opening. The Lost Mine is one such module. Tell your players the set up for encounter x sucks please just roll with as all of you are learning the system. Rogue roll Nat 30 on her stealth roll and Nat 30 on her hide.  Who is surprise? Take your head, place module on table, pound your head into table thru module. Players will always do things that module writers don’t think of. Here how I would rule it, unless MS. Rogue yelled out “ambush”. Give rogue advantage (2 d20s take the better) on init.  Choose one goblin (name him BOB) give him disadvantage ( 2 d20s take the worse). Everyone roll initiative. The rogue is not surprise, the goblins are not surprise, the other PCS and Bob are surprise. During the first round the goblins will not shoot at the rogue, the rogue shoots at whomever she wants, Bob and the PC exchange looks of confusion. Thumbs up on …Part of the house rules, that they agreed to, were that if there was a disagreement about a rule, the DM would make a final ruling and the game would move on, and we would discuss it out of session….. I do this too. And if I made a mistake, I tell my gamers next session. But I don’t recon last week session. Well except if a PC died by my mistake. Major Problem. …player was essentially controlling the other player's Halfling and telling them to "stealth, roll for stealth, ok now hide!" sort of thing. The not-Halfling-rogue player, would not continue playing "unless 'they' got to stealth and a bonus hide action" because "he couldn't have fun if we weren't playing by the rules…….. You have problem player here. 1. He was bill bossy about telling other people what to do. 2. He wanted to take his ball and go home. A rolled up newspaper on the nose works on these sad puppies. Or nicely explain to him to play his own pc or go home. Surprise from the SRD page 40Combat Step by Step 1. Determine surprise. The GM determines whether anyone involved in the combat encounter is surprised.Under the surprise sectionThe GM determines who might be surprised. If neither side tries to be stealthy, they automatically notice each other. Otherwise, the GM compares the Dexterity (Stealth) checks of anyone hiding with the passive Wisdom (Perception) score of each creature on the opposing side. Any character or monster that doesn’t notice a threat is surprised at the start of the encounter.So sometimes the DM determines if the pc are surprise, sometimes the dice do.</blockquote>

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