Looking for a new campaign setting

[kenjib]

Not to dissuade you Mike or to say Kenjib is wrong, but it's far from just premade plots and "meta-plotting" for the Scarred Lands It's true that there is a kind of overall theme but that's not to say you can't run your stuff. I do, I know Lars does, and plenty of the SL fans. Heck we already had one in the Plots and Places had a slightly altered version of the Apocalypse Stone adventure. You can add or subtract as much as you want, without hurting the overall feel. Plus the fact it's not about good or evil, really. The titans aren't any more evil or good than some Cthulthuian gods. Heck I've contemplated several times running with a bunch of Golthainite druids and/or Slitheren characters. Or for that matter LE Charduni working with Paladins to defeat a potent evil. Now that's not to say you couldn't do that in Kalamar, but most people in the Scarred Lands don't look twice about having such combo work. The gods of all stripes worked together to forge a tenous but workable relationship.

Then there is the magic system. I mean how cool is to make a signature sorcerer? Easily if you got the right bloodline. Scion feats, one of the best ideas from the Scarred Lands, also plays an important role in this. Or perhaps you want more reason for a wizard to work with the gods. Cabalism might be to your speed. Plus the fact with a LOT of wilderness to cover, druids and rangers, even barbarians play a more significant role. This isn't to say the Scarred Lands has near the low level feel as Kalamar, but with true rituals, ritual magic system, few people walking around with lots of rings, wands and stuff, there are options. I know I use them.

As for where to start, if you're Dming, you best get SLCS:Ghelspad, as that's the core for most good Dms. You can follow it up with either the Divine or Defeated or Relics and Rituals. Either book will do.

I hope this will make you reconsider. (Also you got little ole me.)

Hello Nightfall. How have you been? I didn't mean to imply that you can only run either setting one way. Just as you could run your own plotlines in Scarred Lands and ignore the titan/god war completely if you wanted, you could also stick to the built-in hooks of Kalamar, such as the lost heir to the Emperor's throne and the secret organization that may, or may not, be sheparding him. With Scarred Lands however, you would be losing much of the charm of the setting because most of the setting material revolves around this topic. With Kalamar, the results would be epic, but not world-shatteringly apocolyptic like you could create with Scarred Lands. You can do anything with any setting if you have enough time and motivation on your hands, but the different settings are more conducive to certain things.

Or for that matter LE Charduni working with Paladins to defeat a potent evil. Now that's not to say you couldn't do that in Kalamar, but most people in the Scarred Lands don't look twice about having such combo work. The gods of all stripes worked together to forge a tenous but workable relationship.

Having evil groups work with good groups out of self-interest is not the same as thinking outside of alignment altogether. In Kalamar, the goals of most groups are more material -- power, self preservation, wealth. Evil and good is not even relevant and they might worship numerous several gods at the same time. For example Kabori, Emperor of Kalamar, is intentionally left unstatted in the book. Due to the complexity of his political situation he could easily be written up as lawful good, lawful neutral, or lawful evil. He seeks political and military hegemony. Is this a megalomaniacal drive for power and control, or is it a noble drive to reclaim the glory of the fallen Empire, bringing order and stability to a war torn world? Is the spread of empire a good thing or a bad thing? The answer probably depends on if you are a Kalamaran citizen or a conquered dwarven subject from Karasta, fighting for freedom. As a DM, you are free to interpret the moral and ethical implications of this situation for yourself, rather than being told one way or the other. In that way they echo similar themes that we must deal with in the real world today.

Scarred Lands presents bold depictions of a universe where areas and groups can be defined as good and evil in broad brushstrokes. This can be a very appealing tool in storytelling, ala Tolkein's Lord of the Rings. Moral ambiguity is not always a good thing. Some people like to escape into a realm where they can valiantly vanquish the forces of evil and save the world from darkness, unrestrained by the web of judgement and relativity that confuses our daily lives in the real world. IMO Scarred Lands is much better at this type of thing than Kalamar is.

Also, I don't think it's a matter of either setting "winning", but rather giving Mike the info he needs to decide for himself based on preference. These are both very high quality settings with lots of fans, but they follow fairly divergent design philosophies and cater to different types of games.

 

[Nightfall]

Kenjib,

Doing well. Got a few things on my plate since last time but I'm still around. Let me first state, didn't mean to use the word "winning". Merely persuade. Just as you are doing. Persuading as well as being informative.

Secondly, your points are valid. I think both settings have a lot to offer. Just feel, in my own opinion, Scarred Lands has more going for it than Kalamar. But I'm always willing to concede you guys do great maps as well have many more modules that can be used. But I do think you can get away from titan/god in some respects. (Course it's easier on Termana than on Ghelspad where the conflict causes a much deeper divide.) However I will agree that's part of the charm.

Also you raise the point of rulers. Well if you look at Calastia, considered by many "good" people to be the incarnation of evil, the country and indeed those under it's protection are probably some of the most well off in the land. Few monsters, plenty of places to raise a family. So in that respect moral ambiguity is still prominent in the Scarred Lands as well. I will admit, not everyon can see LE the same way, but LE in say Calastia is not quite the same way as say the Zhents and Zhential Keep. But that's a minor quibble.

But I will certainly agree, if you look at overall, there are plenty of wide brush strokes on the Scarred Lands. Just happen to believe, IMO, that while some strokes are wide, others are not.

 

[Darklone]

Another hand up for Kalamar here. I do like Scarred Lands too (I think many Kalamar fans do) and bought all their books (using many of their stuff too) but I still prefer Kalamar.

Why? Cause it's easy to play with it. I can do a high power high magic campaign as well as some stoneage story. I don't have to look for a metaplot, if I don't want to care about some war or secret organisation, I simply go somewhere else. Scarcely any overpowering NPCs around, but I can have some if I want.

The world is adaptable to anything with not much work. Any DM can play HIS campaign there. That's what I like.

 

[The Allamistako]

I'm a homebrewer, so I don't know if my vote counts, but I'd go for Scarred Lands.

Actually, I was concidering running scarred lands, but that's ot.

Why Scarred Lands? Well, let's just say it appeals to the Moorcock fan in me, more than the "Dragon Lords of Melnibone" thing did.

Why not Kalamar? Despite all the brilliant work Kenzer put into the stuff (And the Villan's thingimy was superbe!), to me it feels like "oh no, not ANOTHER Tolkien clone?"

-Alla

 

[Adlon]

I CANNOT recommend Scarred Lands more highly.

Why? For the reasons you have indicated above.

I like to NOT toil with the core elements of a CS. I'd rather not worry about Pantheons, city layouts/dressing, ecology, geography, historic timelines, and all the rest thats needed to build a world.

I like having all of that done for me, with a good plethora of materials, so I might pick and choose what I will use, and what I may not use.

Scarred Lands has appealed to me greatly. Having been a 1E/2E Forgotten Realms fan, I like the fact of having a great deal of materials to choose from. It takes a lot less time to read materials, than to create them, IMO.

As for the Scarred Lands as a campaign setting, I like the fact, that I can run a heavy magic, or low magic campaign, as I see fit.
I like the fact that the world itself is on the mend, from very recent and traumatic events. The world, as written, is a world that is desparately trying to heal itself from these events, and hopefully, all will go well with assistance from the many citizens in the world.

I find that 99% of any source that is NON Scarred Lands can be fit in. From just about any publisher.

Imagine a country (Calastia), run by a LE king, where the populace is overall quite content with things, but where the overall populace is mostly ignorant of the atrocities that their king performs in his dark sanctuary.

Imagine a city of Dwarves, (Burok Torn), that is overall respected by most of the continents populace, for their standing strong against the most intensive attempts at their destruction the world has seen since the Titans War.

Imagine a city run and ruled by Paladins and Clerics, (Mithril), a good aligned city, all alone geographically, yet half of the city is a dark, fetid alleyway of corruption, and mayhem.

Imagine a city (Hollowfaust) that is run by necromancers, yet one doesnt necessarily need to feel intrepid about visiting there, just breaking the laws, or dying.

Imagine great civilizations dotting an island continent's shores, with a wild and savage interior, yet said interior needs be breached everyday, for trade and more.

Ancient, wealthy ruins galore, a diverse land with every terrain type, unique monsters as you see fit to buy their compendia, unique spells, magic items, and more, all fleshed out for you, yet, any core entity can be used as well as any other 3rd party's published works.

I can go on and on, but I think I may have already.

I'd strongly suggest Scarred Lands. It's as open or closed as you want it.

 

[Fenes 2]

I know Kalamar, but not the Scarred Lands so far, even though I'll probably keep running campaigns in my home-brew version of the Realms. What I like at Kalamar is that it has no metaplot advancing the timeline, which could lead to major modifications to a campaign. I also like the political situation, open up for many possibilities, and the geographical layout. I also get the feeling that a low-magic campaign is easier to achieve in Kalamar than in other settings, or more precise a low magic profile campaign. Most of all though I like the moral ambiguity in the setting. "Right" or "wrong" depends much more on the country you are in than on your alignment. The whole setting is less black and white than many others, all countries have bad sides and drawbacks.

Contrary to many, I am not a big fan of the Atlas - I don't really use maps to a degree that I could get my money's worth out of it - not that it is not a very high-value product, just not suited to my playstyle.

 

[Nightfall]

*thanks his SL fans/peeps.* Especially Ad. In any case folks, I'm glad both sides here can discuss their reasons WITHOUT resorting to flame wars. So props to both sides.

 

[mikep18103]

Thanks for the help everyone. I have decided on SL as my new campaign setting. It has a feel of something I always like in my campaigns the battle of good vs evil with the gods playing a hand. It just feels right, even from just reading the small writeups on S&S's website.

SL appears to be a world with rich adventure possibilities. I'm sure Kalamar is the same but I'm going to choose SL. I like the feel of the free adventure off their website.

I decided to choose a packaged world instead of a homebrew because it is easier to read then create and right now my creative juices needed a spark. The folks at S&S sparked ideas with the SL campaign setting.

Can't wait to get my books. Looks like a trip to the gaming store after work tonight.

Mike.

 

[Nightfall]

*grins widely* Welcome to my lair..erhm the Scarred Lands! You need help, have a question, my email is always open.

 

[The Allamistako]

Nightfall, if I understood you right, you're part of the Scarred Lands design team. Can I ask you a question?

Why did you release the Gazettier thingys? The Gelspad Gazettier (That was the first one, right?) was what put me way off running the SL, and drove me to world building. Now if the big fat book had come first...

-Alla, who thinks SL AND Kalamar are great pieces of work!