Looking for advice l: competition between adventuring parties

[Ginger McMurray]

Hoping for advice:

I'm looking at the next leg of our campaign being a "race for the MacGuffin" scenario. The PCs (Rolemaster) have been chasing an evil sorceress for a while now. I want to let them catch up but put them in a position where they can't actually kill her. I'm thinking she's working for the king or some other powerful figure and vengeance will be swift. Instead, they're given the opportunity to complete the job themselves. The employer doesn't give a crap who does it and doesn't care what happens to them afterwards (so maybe an underworld figure).

The problem: I've never run or even read an adventure like that. Can someone point me to some good resources? Advice from the geniuses here is considered good as well.

 

[Fenris-77]

Part of the trick there is to avoid direct conflict with that other adventuring party until it really matters. If the two parties throw down at the beginning of the story arc it could be all over but the crying. I have some ideas, but they aren't a whole campaign, more like tools and scenes.

Perhaps have this powerful employer summon the party to offer them the contract, and the other party is also there. Things can get salty, insults can be exchanged, but the presence of the patron prevents overt violence. That sets you up for the adversarial thing without the risk of fighting.

Your question immediately brought the movie Oceans Twelve to mind. If you haven't seen it has a core element of competition between groups of thieves, with one group always seeming to be a step ahead, at least to start. That's one way to handle the other adventuring party while keeping the big confrontation until later. Let's call the other party the Black Cats (a little nod to O12). So your heroes scale the mountain, brave the legions of undead, and penetrate the very heart of the ancient temple that contains a clue to the location of the maguffin, only to find the clue missing and a small statuette of a Black Cat left in its place.

Another model is the Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. That has two groups racing for a macguffin, but with different sets of information. The diary plays a key role there. That model could work as a part of the campaign you're looking at.

Another common trope is to have some sort of greater peril force the two parties to work together, at least short term. The looming shadow of eventual betrayal will add some marvelous frisson to the proceedings.

Another interesting twist is to make the other party not actually bad guys, just competitors. Make them keen professionals, people that your PCs would respect. The two parties can banter back and forth as the race to the finish, perhaps even helping each other in some small ways. A friendly rivalry. The competing group takes the lead and the players know they have been beaten to final site. When the party arrives they find their competitors one a time, quite dead in messy and inventive ways, scattered throughout the final dungeon. Perhaps there is a single survivor that the party can save or rescue who proves to have a key piece of the puzzle.

 

[uzirath]

The first adventure published for the GURPS Dungeon Fantasy line (Mirror of the Fire Demon) was based on the premise that many rival adventuring parties would be racing to find the prize at the same time. It included a fully statted set of potential rivals, each with clear goals and personality. Each rival could be classified as "tough" or "clever" which would change their strategy and tactics. We opened that game with a bunch of the rivals present at the initial meeting where the quest was explained. As @Fenris-77 suggested, this created delicious tension right off the bat. In the end, PCs fought some groups, teamed up with others, tricked and were tricked, etc.

As GM, you have to be nimble. Any pre-planned scenes may need to be radically adjusted depending on who gets there first and what they do. This also gives you a lot of dials to play with to keep the tension high. It took me a while to get the hang of it, but the whole group really enjoyed it.d

 

[Eltab]

Indiana Jones again: "There is nothing you can possess that I cannot take away". - Belloc, outside the 'golden idol' temple
The rival, a couple of times in the past, let the PCs face the dungeon, find the prize, while he/they set up an ambush outside. They took the McGuffin du jour to the Questgiver and got the reward he had promised.
Now one of them comes to the PCs. He has a commission, his usual allies are dead, he knows the group is competent. You outnumber and can overpower me if you wish. Can we work this job together on those terms?
Plot twist: his allies are not dead (or maybe a couple of them are...), they got repulsed by the dungeon's defenses. The others are lurking nearby. They are not all in on the latest plot to take advantage of the PCs; some will think their companion has betrayed them.

 

[Shiroiken]

While I haven't played it, I believe 5E D&D's "Waterdeep: Dragon Heist." has something like that. Another source might the Witcher Season 1 episode where they hunt a dragon; it has several groups working at the same goal, something with and against each other.

 

[Scott Christian]

Great advice from above. The Witcher was good with the death scenes of their companions. I'd also third Indiana Jones.

On a "don't burn bridges, build them" note, I would have the employ at the end turn on them. And then through motives and twists of fate, the other adventuring party needs to rescue or help them. This way it wraps up nicely between players.

 

[Lanefan]

One word of caution: if it comes to full-on combat, battles between two fully-equipped groups of adventurers can be among the most complex and most demanding - and longest! - you'll ever run.

Unless both groups are very low level and-or unless your sessions are very long, expect that the combat will take more than one session to resolve.

 

[aco175]

I sometimes have another party active in the same area or even in the same dungeon as the PCs. They usually come out as friendly rivals to the PCs. One time the PCs kept doing things and then kept hearing about how the other group did what the PCs did and stole their fame. The PCs ended up rescuing the other group who were a couple levels under the PCs. The PCs ended up being hero-worshiped and the other parties bard made up very outlandish stories about the exploits of the PCs until someone came looking for the PCs. And then the other group ended up being hires to go to the same dungeon the PCs were heading to and get the Mcgruffin first.

 

[GMMichael]

I'm looking at the next leg of our campaign being a "race for the MacGuffin" scenario. The PCs (Rolemaster) have been chasing an evil sorceress for a while now. I want to let them catch up but put them in a position where they can't actually kill her. I'm thinking she's working for the king or some other powerful figure and vengeance will be swift. Instead, they're given the opportunity to complete the job themselves. The employer doesn't give a crap who does it and doesn't care what happens to them afterwards (so maybe an underworld figure).

Some clarification might help:

Who is given the opportunity to complete what job?
What's this about another adventuring party?
We know some employers don't give a crap, but about what doesn't she give a crap? What the sorceress is up to? What the PCs are up to?

These PCs sound like a bunch of murderers/law breakers. Especially if the sorceress is working for the king. A good way to prevent law breakers from doing something is to have a lot of law enforcers milling about. But since she's a sorceress, another good way: magic.

One word of caution: if it comes to full-on combat, battles between two fully-equipped groups of adventurers can be among the most complex and most demanding - and longest! - you'll ever run.

This sounds like a D&D problem (but doesn't have to be). Does it apply to Rolemaster too? NPC adventurers don't need full character sheets. They just need a couple of cool moves to do that make them interesting. Bonus points if they do something that scares the PCs a little: "hey, I didn't know he could do that!"

 

[Lackofname]

I could have sworn the Pathfinder jungle AP, the "Scales" one, had opposing adventuring groups.

One thing that comes to mind is that if the PCs are competing against another group, there needs ot be a few things:

1. The players need to have a sense of how far along the opposition is. It's a race, but a race where you can't see the other contestant until the end is really tough, especially for a long race like this likely is. So some way to have a few "check ins" to determine if the opposition is ahead/behind, would be good. Especially if the PCs can find a way to say, throw obstacles in the path of the other side.

2. There should be a chance the competitors get there first. Otherwise it's not really a race, is it? The players know they're trying, "but the Pcs are the star of the show, so to speak, so they will surely win." Telling the players that they could lose this one/might have to wrestle it from the hands of the competition can very well make them a little more serious.

On a "don't burn bridges, build them" note, I would have the employ at the end turn on them. And then through motives and twists of fate, the other adventuring party needs to rescue or help them. This way it wraps up nicely between players.

While I like the idea of the other adventuring party coming to help, "the boss betrays you" is one of those tropes that gets abused a lot, and really makes a party distrust all NPCs. Someone else could, instead, betray the Big Boss, and thus the players AND the NPC are in hot water.