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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Justice and Rule" data-source="post: 9374676" data-attributes="member: 6778210">Yeah, this kind of hits on the problems I was having recommending everything else. The 5E-ish games are still going to have similar if not the same conceptions and ideas. Hard to say they wouldn't get bogged down in the same problems.With MCDM and Daggerheart, I am excited for both games (the former a bit more than the latter, I think, but both look interesting!) but they are in such early development it's really hard to recommend them to play anything long-term. Who knows how balance changes, mechanics changes, etc, might change what you chose and force you to re-spec?For me, it sounds like most of your group is interested in something similar to 4E without exactly being 4E. That's basically PF2 in a nutshell.</blockquote>