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Message: <blockquote data-quote="timbannock" data-source="post: 9374782" data-attributes="member: 17913">"Crunchy, tactical, on a grid" and "plays fast" is not something I've honestly found yet. Seriously. Every game that supports the first half of that equation only vaguely ever brushes past the second half when the entire party really dives in and does the homework to know what their characters can/should be doing on their turn.Shadow of the Demon Lord/Weird Wizard does really sound like one of the best options. Warhammer would be a strong contender, too, but I'm less familiar with how quickly it plays; it may be a slog just in different ways.That said, you can take the Combat chapter of 5E and literally drop it into Castles & Crusades, Shadowdark, Knave, and a lot of OSR games as-is, with little or no work, and therefore make those games a bit a more tactical/grid-focused. Plus you're ignoring a lot of the stuff that seems to be problematic for your group, which is in the way class abilities, spells, and feats all interact with the combat system. Those games all play SUPER FAST, and are built for modding, so the player who's looking for a system "as-is" can get over themselves by having those games as-is and just dropping the 5E Combat chapter on top. It works "as-is".If "crunchy, tactical" doesn't require the "grid" part, then you have a lot more options for games that are fast but have tactical options. Fabula Ultima, The One Ring, and a few others do great stuff with options like that. And play a hell of a lot faster because everything in the game isn't dialed into creating rules exceptions.</blockquote>

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