Looking for ideas/techniques to help players take ownership of plot

[pemerton]

As I posted on another thread, I've got a couple of players in my current group who seem to enjoy the story, and to enjoy the story elements that I (as GM) introduce into the game but are not very quick to take up those elements themselves and make them their own. At least to me, it feels like they are (somewhat passively) waiting for me to insert more of that sort of stuff into the next adventure, so they can enjoy seeing the plot built up. I'd rather them participate a bit more in shaping the plot.

The raw material is there - one of the PCs is (as per the background written by the player) one of the last survivors of a city sacked by humanoids, and the other is a tiefling paladin of the Raven Queen. So I guess I'm looking for any ideas/experiences about how to tip the balance just a bit towards player protagonism - any techniques you think might work, ideas for encounters/situations that might bring to the surface this thematic stuff that's lurking just below it.

2. Ground the players in the setting. Don't hand them a setting bible and expect them to read it. Make the setting matter in the game. Each session should hammer home some element of the setting. Do this enough times and the players start to get a sense of posibilities and might start being pro-active.

I think this is good advice. But there's the problem that, done in the wrong way, it can compound the issue - oneway delivery of plot from GM to players - rather than overcome the issue.

Hence starting a new thread to get others' ideas. In particular, what techniques/encounters etc have you used to force your players to confront the central thematic intersections between their PCs and the gameworld, so that they start to drive the plot and the world rather than just passively taking it from the GM?

Key features of the gameworld at the moment are:

*Raven Queen vs Orcus;

*minotaurs who a couple of centuries ago turned from the gods to Baphomet, seeking more energy to help them against an expanding Nerath, and then entered a pact with Orcus hoping their dead could also join them in the fight, which all went wrong as Orcus betrayed Baphomet and the minotaurs;

*Nerathi goblin and hobgoblin mercenaries who were abandoned to the borderlands once Nerath brought peace at the end of its conquests and who, now that Nerath has collapsed, are bandits and slave-raiders threatening the "points-of-light".​

The PCs:

*As mentioned above, a survivor of the sacking of a one-time Nerathi city who is an initiate of the Raven Queen but is becoming more drawn to the worship of Erathis, and a Tiefling paladin of the Raven Queen who wants to try and stop any backsliding;

*A Drow Wild Mage sorcerer who worships Correllon and dreams of reuniting the Drow with the mainstream elves, and who has also had some dealings with an imp who promised to teach him how to master the chaos;

*A Dwarf fighter whose background - an unlucky no-hoper who set out from the dwarven stronghold to try and prove this widespread impression of him wrong - is mostly just that ie the player doesn't really bring this into play very much;

*An Elf ranger who worships the Raven Queen but has no very striking personality traits or background details.​

The game is 6th level, and adventure locales that (everything else being equal) I'm interested in running are Thunderspire Labyrinth and Heathen (the latter is from one of the last of the free online Dungeons).

I can handle a reasonable degree of friction/conflict between PCs, but not so much as to cause actual breakup of the adventuring party.

Any and all ideas/suggestions welcome!

(Note: this is self-evidently not aimed at old-style sandbox play. So can we please avoid a sandbox/railroading debate. Thanks.)

 

[The Shaman]

Forgive me for asking the really obvious question, but have you discussed this with your players? Explained to them that you'd like them to take more initiative in the way the game is unfolding? Suggested more active pursuit of their goals?

 

[pemerton]

We've talked at length about playstyles and different RPGs and campaigns we've all played in, and at less length about the actual game at hand both outside of and during play - there's an obvious social balance required between inviting a certain sort of play from one's players and impliedly or expressly criticising their play, and I'm happy enough with how I'm handling this.

What I'm looking for to a greater extent is ideas to put to use within the game that will bring a bit of conflict/thematic pressure to the surface, to put a bit more pressure on the players to make some choices for their PCs.

 

[Haltherrion]

. Ground the players in the setting. Don't hand them a setting bible and expect them to read it. Make the setting matter in the game. Each session should hammer home some element of the setting. Do this enough times and the players start to get a sense of posibilities and might start being pro-active.

I think this is good advice. But there's the problem that, done in the wrong way, it can compound the issue - oneway delivery of plot from GM to players - rather than overcome the issue.

I swear I replied to this earlier but here it goes again

I think Hussar has an excellent suggestion to make and it is distinct from feeding the players plot. He is suggesting establishing the setting by repeatedly using elements of it so that it is clear and fresh in your mind.

The advice reminds me of something I read in a writing book once. Your setting and characters may be clear in your (the author's) mind but to your reader, all is murky unless you hammer it home. Same applies to the game.

So in your case, without even introducing any plot elements (although certainly they could lead to story):

• Drive home the raiders presence by showing the gate to a town the players are entering crowded with refugees, forces being mobilized, patrols coming and going.
• Orcus: players see smoke rising from the town square and find that the town elders have eradicated a secret temple to orcus in a townhouse. Folks are spooked and wonder if there are more temples.

Do this frequently and the players will begin to appreciate the setting elements that matter for plot and more importantly, begin to act on them.

Regarding more story driven aspects, if you don't mind a little player tension you could consider trying to hook one of the players as a secret worshipper of orcus. This can be very dicey and has been known to result in players leaving a group so care is required but with the right players, it can be rather fun. Alternately, you can establish some meaningful friendly NPCs and then cause one to be subverted.

In a setting such as you have described, I would be inclined to drive the plot around raven queen vs orcus and use the raiders as a foil- they can make it hard to reach certain ruins and shrines now within the raiders domains as well as provide a "low plot" encounter from time to time.

I'm a little fuzzy on the setting though so hard for me to suggest more.

 

[pemerton]

I think Hussar has an excellent suggestion to make and it is distinct from feeding the players plot. He is suggesting establishing the setting by repeatedly using elements of it so that it is clear and fresh in your mind.

Good point. And thanks for the useful ideas.

 

[Hereticus]

Looking for ideas/techniques to help players take ownership of plot

Before the campaign started, I asked the players for some of their old character sheets from their high-powered older and beloved characters. I then incorporated them into the campaign as heroes and villains.

 

[LostSoul]

Play up the areas of tension by introducing opposing sides who both have reasonable philosophies.

Brainstorming a few things:

Hobgoblin raiders who hate Erathis and Nerath for their betrayal; devout worshippers of the Raven Queen. Putting the blade to both humans and undead.

Humans in the borderlands trying to pacify the land; worship Erathis; buy slaves (via the seedy dwarves) from the minotaurs in accordance with the divine Code of Erathis - it's better than having them toil under the yoke of minotaur cabalists.

Seedy dwarven slave-traders looking to reclaim their ancient clan-home, possibly cultists of Baphomet, searching for the Axe of the Dwarvish Lords.

Minotaurs who worship Moradin and consider themselves at war with humans.

I don't know why the elves split up, so I don't know what to do about that.

It's interesting - you have a civilization (Nerath, probably represented by Erathis) who comes into "the wilderness" and upsets the status quo. All the people who were there, who were not all that bad to begin with, make deals with dark forces to hold onto their lands. This goes horribly for everyone involved.

Now the PCs enter these lands; how should they deal with the mess? All their choices should carry political implications, each choice snowballing into something bigger, with more at stake, until you reach the climax.

 

[fba827]

Perhaps probe them -between sessions- (email, etc) about a detail from their background ie "So, I was rereading your background and I was just wondering if you have any further ideas on X that you mentioned in your PC's background ..."
This might remove some pressure of coming up with stuff 'on the spot' at the table and gives them some time to let the creativejuices flow. have it as inividual emails so that no one will feel pressure from others or nervous about what others might say about their idea(s).

but with that sort of method you could probably fish out ideas for a monestary/temple for the raven queen, perhaps even some idea for church hierarchy sparks from that which in turn might offer some plot hook potential. or you could ask for more info about the imp, or about a home town, or "one adventure he would have had while training" etc etc.

 

[pemerton]

Brainstorming a few things

Good stuff! Thanks, LostSoul.