Looking for other options for XP systems

Davelozzi said:
One of the systems I remember reading about that I wouldn't mind another look at was one that involved making tally marks each time a player did something in various categories.

I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure you are talking about my system. I'll cut and paste it from the document I created when I was asked about it before:

XP system used by Rel

First, I must note that most of the credit for this system should go to the player who runs Speaks with Stone in my current campaign. He originally designed it to replace the clunky xp system for Rolemaster and since then, he and I have both tweaked and refined it. It works like this:

First, there's a chart that looks sort of like this:

___Combat____________________________________
___Melee (see note below)________________________
___Enchantment________________________________
___Creation____________________________________
___Skills______________________________________
___Puzzle_____________________________________
___Sacrifice____________________________________
___Learned____________________________________
___Character___________________________________
___Goal_______________________________________
___Social______________________________________

___x X

The players each have a copy of this chart for every session. As we go along they write down things that their character has done in a particular category in the big blank to the right.

At the end of the session, they give me the sheets and I "grade their papers". In doing so, I will put "tic marks" in the small blanks to the left if they have fulfilled the requirements for the category. At the bottom I total up all the marks they received and then apply a multiplier based on their current level (represented by the X in the chart above). Currently, the formula I use for the multiplier is 50+(character level x 15).

On average, I'd say the players get around 7 marks per session. If a 5th level player gets 7 marks they would get 875 experience points for the session (the multiplier for a 5th level character is 125 per the above formula).

In practice this meant that it took around 3 sessions for everyone to make 2nd level. On average, it has taken approximately one session longer to reach each of the successive levels than it did to get to 2nd (i.e. 4 more session to make 3rd, 5 more sessions to make 4th, etc.).

When I say that 7 marks is average for a session, I mean precisely that. There have been sessions where some characters only got 4 or 5 marks. And there have been some sessions where they got 10 or 11 marks. It all depends on how involved you are in the game.

Let me give a few details about how I grade the various categories.

Combat - I usually give out one mark for every "minor" combat the group takes part in and two for a "major" combat. These are rather subjective definitions but I'm comfortable with them.

***Melee - For anybody who has used my system in the past, this is a new category that we added in. We decided as a group that under the d20 system, the warrior types needed a slight boost to offset the fact that spellcasters get the Enchantment category with such regularity. The Melee category also rewards those who stand up on the "front line" and take shots from the bad guys, effectively using their own hit points to shield the party from danger. If a character participated in hand to hand combat during most or all of the combats in the session, they get a tic mark here. If there was a greater than average amount of combat, they usually get two tics.

Enchantment - If a character casts at least half their normal spell allotment or uses the powers of most of their magic items, I give them a mark here. If a character goes through their whole spell selection more than once, I usually give them a second point. It has been argued that this category heavily favors the spell casters over the non spell casters but there are other categories that the spell casters are not as likely to get so that doesn't bother me. YMMV.

Creation - The characters get points here for using any craft skills to create things in the game. Sometimes I have given a point if one character in particular was the mastermind of an elaborate plan. Also, I give points here if the player contributes to the game in a material way, such as painting figures, drawing maps for areas of the campaign the characters know about or bringing extensive background material about a topic important to the game (perhaps some stuff they found about Roman architecture, ancient weaponry, mining techniques or anything else that helps bring detail and life to the campaign).

Skills - This is the category the Rogues love. If a character uses most of their skills during a session, they get credit for it here, provided they aren't already getting credit for it elsewhere.

Puzzle - This category represents the character solving a puzzle in game. It applies to elaborate traps and to unraveling the sinister plot of the evil mastermind. I should mention that I don't have that many elaborate traps in my campaign and the evil masterminds are pretty good at hiding their plots so I don't wind up handing out many points in this category.

Sacrifice - This represents heroism in the face of bad odds, putting your character at risk for innocents or helpless party members or giving up something for the greater good. This is one category in which the fighter types tend to outperform the spell casters.

Learned - This category reflects new information that the party has uncovered that is of general interest or specific importance to the plot. This is one that they get credit for almost every session.

Character - This is another point they should be getting every session because it reflects how they portray the personality of their character. Exhibiting the quirks, flaws and peculiarities of your character will always get you a point here. If you have a session where the quintessential personality of your character is captured in almost every scene, you'll get two points here.

Goal - Characters get points here for accomplishing major party goals as well as minor goals the character sets for themselves. I have the players tell me their goals in advance (or else they don't get credit for them) which gives me an indicator as to which way the campaign will likely be headed.

Social - They get credit mostly for interacting with NPC's in meaningful ways. I don't usually give credit for interactions within the party but I sometimes will if one of the characters shares a story or other details from their background that the other party members didn't already know.


I've said it before and I'll say it again: This system may not work for everyone! But I think it has several things going for it that work really well for me and the group I game with.

First, I never have to use the CR system in the DMG to figure out xp. I don't have to crack a book while I'm giving out experience because everything I need is on their sheet or in my head.

Second, it rewards the players for doing things besides combat. If some kind of encounter is important to the campaign, the players don't feel any need to rush through it to get to the combat. They know that they will be rewarded so long as what they're doing is relevant to the story, whether it be fighting monsters, conducting a diplomatic mission, celebrating the birthday of a loved one or doing espionage.

Third, it keeps the players focused on the game if they record stuff on these sheets during play. They may notice that they haven't put anything in the blank next to "Character" yet and that reminds them that they should be putting more of their character's personality into the session. If they haven't put anything in the "Goal" category yet, maybe they need to focus on what the group is trying to accomplish and not get side tracked by looting a room full of dead goblins.

Anyhow, if you have any more questions about the system, I'll be happy to answer them and you're obviously free to use it if you like.

Edit - One other thing I would mention is that if you like the basic way the system works but don't like the rate of progression, you can always alter the multiplier you use to get a faster or slower rate. One of the other members of our group devised a nice spreadsheet that lets you put in different variables to see how many sessions it would take to reach each level and I'd be happy to forward a copy of it to anybody who wants it.
 
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Yeah, Rel, that's it the one I was thinking off -- thanks. Please do forward me that spreadsheet.

I'm planning on putting all the options to my players and then taking a vote on it. So if anyone else has any other ideas to add, I'm still listening. :)
 


Could I please also get a copy of that spreadsheet, Rel?

This alt. exp. system looks really intriguing. Can't wait to try it out.

Thanks,
 

Could I please also get a copy of that spreadsheet, Rel?

This alt. exp. system looks really intriguing. Can't wait to try it out.

Thanks,
 

I find arbitraily giving out experience to be the easiest way.

A) it allows me to control the groups advancement, speed up or slow it down however I want.

B) It's faster than tallying up CR's, adding in story rewards, adding in amounts for role-playing etc.

I don't think it takes anything away from the game by doing it this way, but that's just me!

Delgar
 

That system is also rather remniscent of the one that Wulf Ratbane used in his Lazy Days campaign... Basically you got XP for certain sorts of things - including Showing Up, and Tasty Snacks... :)
 


theRuinedOne said:
I've been using Rel's system for about six months and I give it a hearty thumbs-up. :D

Another satisfied customer! Thanks for the pimpin', RuinedOne. And by the way, did you see the new "Melee" category that I added above? It was a tweak to the system that our group decided to adopt and you might want to check it out.

I just mailed out the spreadsheets so let me know if you didn't get one.

Just a couple more comments about the system we use:

I had somebody recently mention in another thread that he had tried our system and liked it, but his players didn't so they stopped using it. He was nice enough to pass along the reasons they didn't like it and I thought they were worth mentioning since I think you can learn as much through your failures as your successes.

The first reason they didn't like it was they thought it was too much work for them. I don't know what constitutes "too much work" for the average player but for our group, it never takes more than 5 minutes to fill out the little form. That isn't too much work for us, especially in light of how much work the GM puts in each week. But, if this is a concern, make sure the players are using as much shorthand as possible. In describing the events that go in each category, you shouldn't need more than just a word or two to let the GM know what you are referring to. Remember, you are jotting this down as you go or right at the end of the session. So, at most, these events are a few hours old. For some categories, like Skills, I will write the name of a skill and then put a hatch mark next to it each time I use the skill. The point is that it should be simple and quick.

The other reason cited for not liking it was that the players felt "judged" or "graded" by the GM. Well, to a certain extent, that's unavoidable by this sytem. It is somewhat subjective and if the players have a big problem with that then maybe this isn't the system for your group. My advice is to try and be as clear as possible about the guidelines you use for assigning the tick marks. And whatever you do, try and keep as much objectivity as possible. If there is a player in the group that you like less than the others and you "grade his paper" more harshly than the others then you're going to have a problem. Don't do that.

The only other thing I'll say is that, just like almost any other aspect of the game, if there is something about my system that you don't like or feel could work better for you group, change it. If you want there to be more or fewer categories than I list, change it. Likewise if you think the average number of tick marks needs to be higher or lower. You don't need my permission to fold, spindle and mutilate it.

Hope it helps in some form or fashion.
 


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