Looking for Spell-less bard variant

[General Barron]

Hello all. I'm starting a low-magic campaign, where I'm not allowing players to have spell-casting abilities. So basically they can't choose classes like wizard, cleric, sorceror, etc. I'm letting them take paladin or ranger classes, only without spells, and for those I'm using the spell-less variants found in the Complete Warrior.

I'd really like one of the players to choose a bard, but I need a variant bard that has no spells, and I haven't been able to find one in the books I have. So now I'm turning to you guys for suggestions, in case someone has already done this.

I'm thinking that I will up the bard's skill points to 8/level, for starters. Then I'd like to beef up their musical abilities to take up the rest of the slack left behind, but I'm not sure how to do that exactly. I've been thumbing thru my old 2nd ed Bard's Handbook for some possible ideas. Help greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[Herobizkit]

Upping their skill points to 8/level puts them on par with the Rogue, which is what I probaly would have done. *G*

Their bardic music is probably just fine as is... but if you want to up it, you might want to consider using the Marshall class from the Miniatures Handbook. They can make and maintain auras (very much like the Paladin from the computer game Diablo II) that could also be represented by singing.

And, you could also make a Skald-like variant by adding the Barbarian Rage ability to the Bard, and perhaps even allowing the Rage to be shared (as is or a watered-down version) with his teammates.

EDIT: If you have the extra cash, check out the Iron Heroes rules variant from Malhavoc Press. It replaces a lot of magic with feats, special abilities, and talents that will increase a character's power without magic items.

 

[General Barron]

Upping their skill points to 8/level puts them on par with the Rogue, which is what I probaly would have done. *G*

Their bardic music is probably just fine as is... but if you want to up it, you might want to consider using the Marshall class from the Miniatures Handbook. They can make and maintain auras (very much like the Paladin from the computer game Diablo II) that could also be represented by singing.

And, you could also make a Skald-like variant by adding the Barbarian Rage ability to the Bard, and perhaps even allowing the Rage to be shared (as is or a watered-down version) with his teammates.

The extra skills are nice, but 2 points didn't seem to be quite enough compensation for removing their spells (which is a big part of their class features). The Skald idea is interesting, but not suited for my setting. Thanks for the tip about Marshalls, I'll find a MHB and check it out .

 

[Aus_Snow]

OK firstly, do you have a particular vision of the Bard for yuor campaign? The 'buffster', inspirer, storyteller, loremaster, leader, jack-of-all-trades, some kind of spell-less enchanter/rogue. . . ? Something else?

Secondly, are you more or less sold on the 8 skp/level and stronger musical abilties approach, or would other abilities & strengths be acceptable?

 

[General Barron]

OK firstly, do you have a particular vision of the Bard for yuor campaign? The 'buffster', inspirer, storyteller, loremaster, leader, jack-of-all-trades, some kind of spell-less enchanter/rogue. . . ? Something else?

Secondly, are you more or less sold on the 8 skp/level and stronger musical abilties approach, or would other abilities & strengths be acceptable?

I've never actually used or even cared for bards before now. However, IMC the main way the PCs will get access to spells is by reading scrolls via Use Magic Device skill from Rouges or Bards (magic is a rare thing; the king might have a court wizard, but you won't find magic academies or town wizards). This was a hard-sell for my player who likes to play wizards, but once he realized he could still use magic (albiet rarely), he agreed. Originally he was making a rouge, but I realized that the role of a 'student of the arcane' is better suited for a bard.

That said, I don't want bards to be 'loremasters', since that goes against the level of magic IMC. I guess I like the 'traditional' idea of a bard being a wandering entertainer, who picks up a wide variety of skills in his travels. The fact that my player's bard has spent a lot of time seeking out knowledge of the arcane would be peculiar to his specific character.

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So I am sold on the 8 skillpoints/level, since it allows my player to pick up the Use Magic Device/Arcane Knowledge skills which he will need if he wants to be the party's 'pysuedo wizard'. I'm not dead-set on beefing up music-abilites, but I DO want bards to 'stand out' from the other classes available (Rouges or warrior-types IMC). I like how his current abilities allow him to do stuff that might be considered semi-magical, and in a low-magic campaign, expanding/beefing those up would really make the class stand apart. But I'm totally open to suggestions.

 

[Sledge]

Or you could just be lazy and grab Unorthodox Bards from The Le Games

 

[General Barron]

Okay, I haven't checked out Unorthodox Bards yet, but I did look at the Marshall from the MHB. I also looked back at the old 2nd ed bard to get some ideas. Here is what I have come up with; please let me know what you think:

Bard Variant: Spell-free bard

This bard is identical to the normal bard class, with the following changes:

Skills: The bard gets 8 skill points per level instead of 6.

Features: (Items in bold are new abilities)

level special
1 Bardic music, influence reactions, bardic knowledge, inspire courage +1, dispel fatigue, fascinate
2 Inspire quickness
3 Lore +1, inspire competence
4 countersong, Effortless song (1/day)
5 Rally allies
6 Lore +2, suggestion
7 Effortless song (2/day)
8 Inspire courage +2
9 Lore +3, Inspire greatness
10 Effortless song (3/day)
11
12 Lore +4, song of freedom
13 Effortless song (4/day)
14 Inspire courage +3
15 Lore +5, inspire heroics
16 Effortless song (5/day)
17
18 Lore +6, mass suggestion
19 Effortless song (6/day)
20 Inspire courage +4


Influence Reactions
A master of performing, bards can use their performances to help influence the mood of those hearing it. After a short performance (1-3 minutes), the bard makes a perform check, based on the target(s) attitude towards him:

Attitude DC
Hostile 20
Unfriendly 15
Indifferent 10
Friendly 5
Helpful 0

If the bard succeeds at a perform check, he will then recieve a +2 circumstance bonus to immediately following bluff or diplomacy checks against those targets.


Lore
Bards are particularly fascinated in learning about the arcane during their travels. Starting at level 3, bards gain a +1 bonus to Use Magic Device and Knowledge (Arcane) skill checks. This bonus increases by +1 every 3 levels thereafter. Even if the bard does not have these skills, he is allowed to make untrained checks in them. Note that a bard might very well get both a Bardic Knowledge AND a Knowledge (Arcane) check to find out certain information, especially information regarding magic items and history.


Bardic Music
The following are additional effects that the bard can perform:

Dispel fatigue (Su)
The soothing melodies of the bard's song can make one forget about the physical hardships they are enduring. Prevents creatures within 90' of the bard from incurring fatigue (from forced marching, lack of sleep, etc), and allows them to ignore the effects of any existing fatigue (although such fatigue will come back after the end of the song). The bard can keep these effects up for one hour per daily song used, though he doesn't have to be performing 100% of that time. Dispel fatigue is a mind-affecting ability.

Inspire quickness (Su)
Using a quick-tempoed performance, the bard can make his companions move as fast as the beat. Grants +10' to base land speed and +4 to initiative rolls to all creatures within 30'. Lasts for as long as the target can hear the bard sing, and 5 rounds thereafter. Inspire quickness is a mind-affecting ability.


Effortless song
As a bard increases in skill, he becomes even better at performing his magical bardic music, to the point where he can sing and do other things, such as fighting, at the same time. Once per day at 4th level, (+1/day every 3 levels thereafter), the bard may start and maintain a bardic music using free actions instead of simple ones (Note that the song still counts against the bard's daily bardic music limit). Even if the bard has a different Perform skill other than singing, assume that he has broad enough musical talent to sing instead of play an instrument. The bard still can not cast spells or use scrolls while maintaining the song, however.


Rally Allies
To use this ability, the bard must know the nature of an upcoming combat. The bard sings heroic songs or weaves inspiring tales about how his comrades will overcome their foes and win the day. Such heroic recitals take at least three minutes, and the audience must be within 30' of the bard to be affected. When complete, the bard makes a Perform skill check, with a DC depending on the perceived difficulty of the upcoming encounter (see table 3-2 in the DMG for definitions of difficulty):

Difficulty DC
Overpowering 30
Very difficult 20
Challenging 15
Easy if
handled properly 10
Easy 5

If the skill check succeeds, the bard's Charisma modifier is used as a Morale bonus for one of the following benefits (chosen by the bard before he makes the skill check):

True strike: bonus to attacks of opportunity and rolls to confirm critical hits.
Art of war: bonus on disarm, trip bull rush, and sunder attempts.
Press the advantage: bonus to damage rolls when flanking or charging.
Determined caster: bonus on rolls to overcome spell resistance.
Heroic defense: bonus to one type of saving throw.
Inner strength: bonus to skill and ability checks based on one ability.

Note that the benefit applies only to the specific (upcoming) encounter that the bard sings about. Once the encounter begins, the effects last for one round per level of the bard. If the encounter doesn't begin fairly soon after the rally ability is used (within an hour or so), then the benefits are lost. If the skill check fails, the bard can not attempt to rally his allies again for that same encounter.


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The basic idea is that the extra skill points and the Lore ability beef up his skills, especially Use Magic Device (which is supposed to replace his spells, to a certain degree). His songs are beefed up by the Effortless Song ability, which allows him to do other stuff in combat instead of only keeping his song up. Some of the stuff is just in there for 'flavor' more than anything else (influence reactions, dispel fatigue). Rally Allies is a cross between the 2nd ed ability, and the Marshall's Aura ability. Note that while it can be used any number of times per day, there are fairly strict limits on how it can be used. I imagine it might be either too powerful or too weak, so I especially want advice on that. It might also need something else at higher levels, since I didn't add much new stuff up there.

Let me know what you think .

 

[Thia Halmades]

Eh, if you're looking for inspiration, you might also want to look on any of the EverQuest boards to get an idea of their Bardic progression, as 'twisting' songs (maintaining multiple songs at once, up to three, usually) without losing any of the effects is a major ability. Things I would also suggest:

Pump up the general power of the Bard music; increase the rate at which Inspire Courage gain power (i.e., add +1 to the final count, and change the rate of progression slightly to improve them overall). I'm saying this because, simply, Bards are balanced as Rogue/Sorc hybrids; that's what they are. But they don't get Rogue abilities, and now you're removing sorcery. They're a music playing hybrid class; you've taken away one half of that and replaced it with... UMD.

As traveling musicians you have a lot of potential for telling cool stories and having a built-in communication system; remember that in settings like this (okay, I go into this kind of detail, so I'll ramble for a minute) basic questions need answered. Is your economy modeled on reality? Do Bards carry news & information? If you're going to eschew the "magical college" bard and go more for 'traveling entertainer' than part of their design should be the communication of information to others, creating a personal network and standing fraternity. People organize, basic rule of society. Especially people with an elite skill, such as making money by making music, instead of working 15 hours a day on a farm. Food for thought.

Inspire Quickness is, in all honesty, very good and I can see a Bard twisting that one in almost every fight. Instead of making a static list, similar to what Herobizkit was saying, have you considered building a Song List and allowing the Bard to pick and choose? Part of where Marshal gets its flavor is the option of having different auras. Oh, and you don't need to buy a copy of the MH to learn about Marshals, they're available as excerpted material on the Wizard site. It's a class that should have been included in the base classes, IMO. It's extremely well balanced and does beautifully in a low-magic/war campaign setting. You can find them here:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030906b

Giving them +2 skill points is fine, but I agree with the consensus so far; if you're going to cut off their arm, you have to give them a decent replacement. I run a low-magic campaign, but I never took it so far as to utterly gimp PC casting options. Oh, and another book that might help you (might) is Relics & Rituals: Excalibur. That's built around a low-magic, Knights of the Round sort of setting and may have some bits in it to help. I own it, but don't remember off the top of my head if it would help you, but if you can find a copy at Borders or your hobby store, leaf through it.

Other things you might want to ask:

- Does low magic mean low monster? You're going to have trouble running a "D&D" game without mystical healing. Have you considered allowing Alchemists to brew healing potions? If you don't, you'll have a very low-combat setting (as people won't want to get killed) or a high rate of attrition. You'll need to pump up medicine/healing abilities, or not get into combat.

- What about treasure? How will your players advance? Mine get almost nothing, but they're soldiers and aren't RPing for treasure, they're in it for the higher cause. What's your hook? How are you going to keep these people involved? What is their tangible reward for continuing the adventure?

Things to mull over.

LCpt. Thia Halmades

 

[General Barron]

Instead of making a static list, similar to what Herobizkit was saying, have you considered building a Song List and allowing the Bard to pick and choose?

Hmm... well, I was kind of trying to avoid doing that, although it might be a possibility. If I did though, what might you suggest? A new song every other level, with certain songs having skill/level requirements (inspire heroics, etc)? In any case, that would also mean that I've got to come up with a lot more songs... suggestions welcome .

'Twisting' is a good idea. What do you think about the 'effortless song' ability also?

And I did look at the marshall class, which is part of where the 'inspire allies' ability came from (all the effects are from the marshall's minor auras). Critique on that ability would be appreciated, since it is pretty different from the bardic music ability.

As traveling musicians you have a lot of potential for telling cool stories and having a built-in communication system

Hmm... an interesting thought, although I always pictured the bard as a loner of sorts. Seems like this is just food for RP thought though, since I don't see how it would be incorporated into their abilities (aside from the bardic knowledge that they already get).

Other things you might want to ask:

- Does low magic mean low monster? You're going to have trouble running a "D&D" game without mystical healing. Have you considered allowing Alchemists to brew healing potions? If you don't, you'll have a very low-combat setting (as people won't want to get killed) or a high rate of attrition. You'll need to pump up medicine/healing abilities, or not get into combat.

- What about treasure? How will your players advance? Mine get almost nothing, but they're soldiers and aren't RPing for treasure, they're in it for the higher cause. What's your hook? How are you going to keep these people involved? What is their tangible reward for continuing the adventure?

Things to mull over.

Low magic = low magical monsters. So things like orcs and owlbears will be as common as ever; however, you won't see a flock of hippogriffes flying overhead on your way to work. Common folk would almost never see these types of magical beasts, since they tend to live in the lands outside of the civilized kingdoms; but adventurers are obviously going to see them a lot more, due to their occupation.

Magical healing will be available in the form of potions. I'm used to running 2nd ed games where there were no rules for buying potions, so I don't see much trouble if everyone is carrying potions instead of having the cleric come up to them for healing.

Besides, I tend to emphasize RP more than combat, and this campaign especially will deal with a lot of political intrigue. My players don't want the typical 'hack and slash' dungeon crawl. So instead I've got a game where your skill and cunning matter more than your sword arm. What happens when the party needs someone to sneak into the mayor's office and steal some records? If they have a wizard of mid levels, they just have him cast invisiblity, knock, or a myriad of other spells, and the task is cake. THAT is the main reason I'm not allowing PCs to take spellcasting classes; the incredible versatity of magic (it can do almost anything, and if it can't, you just make a new spell) makes mundane adventures either really easy, or really difficult for the DM to make (he has to account for dozens of spells instead of just the physical reality). Magic still exists, it just isn't as ubiquitous as in the standard dnd setting.

Treasure-wise, again, my old 2nd ed habits (this is my 1st campaign in 3rd ed) of being stingy with treasure, especially magic items, will have trained my PC's to not expect much. 'The adventure itself is the reward', so to speak. Well, that and the XP. And the treasure (although not as much magic items as by-the-book dnd). Oh, and the plot-hook bit, which I can't divulge since one of my players frequents this board. Suffice to say, the adventurer's aren't just wandering the land looking for magic items. I tried that last campaign, and a few of my players felt there was no real reason why they were adventuring. So I guess my players just have different desires/motivations than most others do.

 

[Felnar]

effortless song should have a limit on how long it can be used