"Looks like we're going to win this battle . . . in about 90 minutes from now."

[Steely Dan]

To the OP:

Can you post the actual encounter in question? ( The one that needed 7-10 rounds to mop up).

What where the player classes and levels?

What was the opposition?

NOTE: Remember that some monsters had been errataed, because their damage output was below average.

Yeah, I'm getting the feeling this was due to the DM not throwing a challenging enough encounter or not utilizing the monsters to their potential.

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

To the OP:

Can you post the actual encounter in question? ( The one that needed 7-10 rounds to mop up).

What where the player classes and levels?

What was the opposition?

NOTE: Remember that some monsters had been errataed, because their damage output was below average.

Yeah, I'm getting the feeling this was due to the DM not throwing a challenging enough encounter or not utilizing the monsters to their potential.

He already has, in post #13.

 

[theNater]

I figured 40% given what the typical 16th level character has -- something like +4 magic armor, say +9 from armor (or, for a Dex character like +3 for armor and +6 for Dex), and +8 from level. With no shield and no other feats that help AC, that's AC 31, Earth Titans would hit 50% of the time, but there might be another +2 to AC somewhere.

Thanks. That makes the numbers part of my brain much happier.

I don't know about that about artillery and skirmishers and such dealing more damage. Wyvern is level 10, has some nifty stuff but damage is generally something like d6+7. Basilisk is level 10, not many hp but does basically 2d6+5 ranged, which isn't deadly but isn't bad at all, 12hp/round when it hits (technically 2d6, ongoing 5).

So they're about in line with the brutes on a per-hit basis, but behind on a per-round basis, I guess. Good to know.

 

[Pbartender]

At this point, the battle is essentially over. If the bad guys had managed an ambush, or surrounded the party, it would have been a close (and perhaps fatal for the party) battle, but at this point it's mostly a matter of cleanup. Yes, most of the foes are still alive, but they're controlled, and they aren't going to surprise the party by doing a wad of damage. But they've got a TON of hit points, so the battle could *easily* take another 7-10 rounds, and another hour and a half.

At this point, it should be obvious to the bad guys as well... And the DM should have them doing their level best to escape a losing situation, so that they can set up another, better ambush later.

 

[Heselbine]

I have not played a lot of 4E, but the bit I've played so far suggests a problem -- from my point of view, at least.

The only encounter I've had that's gone on for a long time has been the Irontooth encounter in H1. And in that, it was touch and go until very near the end.

However, there are definitely points where it starts to feel like mopping up. As a DM, I need to recognise these points and have the monsters surrender. As you say, there's no point carrying on a fight which you know the outcome of - no fun for anyone.

 

[Jack99]

Twice in my current campaign, there has been a point where players expected an easy win.

First was an undead encounter with a trap. They had the undeads fairly locked down, the mage had just dealt with most of the minions. The biggest undead was just about to be bloodied.

As it got bloodied, it did a close burst necrotic attack, seriously hurting both the paladin and a few other melees. Frightened that they had unlocked a new ability, the blew a daily or two on it, causing it to die - which releases another AE, killing the paladin and one other, causing the balance of the fight to tip. As it ended, 1 out of 7 was standing, and 2 of them never got up again.

The other fight that felt as a sure thing, was a demon. Again, the fight felt easy. So easy that the wizard (who had no magic missile) went out to scout, because there must surely be something else coming. Anyway, when it got bloodied, it got a round of extra attacks. But what changed this fight was it's ability to attack up to twice against targets that are bloodied. So as soon as a player got bloodied, he would drop increasingly fast. At the end, they won, but with 3 down, and 2 more (out of 6) quite close to dropping. Not exactly a walkover or what they had predicted.

Actually, come to think of it, the only times where it was easy to call a major encounter to end a specific way, and it proved right, has been when it has been quite clear (at least for me) that the monsters would wing. Nightscale for example, took way too many rounds to finish off the pesky players..

 

[Askaval30]

Just a suggestion, but since we mentioned theoretical encounters and all: Wouldn't it make more sense to pit them against a Solo? As in convert your Brute earth Titan into a Solo Earth Titan and see what happens...

 

[ST]

I also got hung up on the comment about "after a few rounds are up, the monsters have used up all their encounter powers." Monsters typically get a chance to recharge their powers, allowing them to use them multiple times a fight. Anything big enough to stay around the fight a while typically has multiple at-wills, also, although brutes, not so much I admit.

In any case, I have no doubt it's possible to come up with encounters that don't play out as dynamic and interesting, but it seems like having a mix of enemy roles in the encounter does help avoid that.

 

[pogminky]

If a combat encounter has become boring for whatever reason then it's the DMs job to make it interesting or end it and move onto the next thing. There could be hundred of ways to spice up a combat on the fly.......

 

[Mercule]

I've had it in 3rd edition, but not much in 4th yet.

This. I haven't played enough 4e to claim expertise, but I can't believe it's any worse than 3e. That's one of the things that has been grating on me, lately: 10 minutes of decisive combat followed by 50 minutes of watching paint dry. From talking with my players, it seems more noticeable from the DM side of the screen.

Not an edition war comment. Just throwing in some context. I don't think it's a 4e issue.