Lorwyn Elves: Comments, Suggestions?

[Sylrae]

Non- LA Campaign.

And I really dont want it to be much more powerful than a wood elf. I can't imagine if I end up making the rest of Lorwyn and have a core race with +1 either. (I do intend to do the rest of the races too, just not this weekend.)

Lorwyn Tribes:
Elves, Goblins, Elementals, Kithkin(Somewhere between Halflings and Dwarves), Treefolk, Merfolk, Faeries
I'm not sure how I want to implement them exactly.
I'm thinking everything except the Elemental types and treefolk should be 0 LA

The Background info I found said something about being naturally good hunters. Anything you guys think I could switch out for that?

Damage Reduction isn't actually necessary, I just need some effect for Cold Iron to Emphasize it's fey-ness, and then something to balance whatever Cold Iron weakness is appropriate. How would you guys go about doing it/ how is it normally for Fey?

Also, what do fey normally get to make them different than humanoids? besides lowlight vision which elves have anyways.

I suppose for the more beefy races class levels would be OK but I want to avoid as much as possible anything that kills the Hit Points (what makes Level Adjustments kill you).

The level 1 drow wizard may be able to cast darkness but if any level 3 character hits him with ANYTHING he will be dead.

Weird thought. LA basically kills your HPs and Saves. but what about a Race whose bonus is more hitpoints. Like Treefolk. All I can figure you could do is either bonus hit points (logical to me) or give them like +20 to AC (Not logical to me, cause youre hitting them, it just takes longer to kill them).

 

[Aus_Snow]

Non- LA Campaign.

And I really dont want it to be much more powerful than a wood elf. I can't imagine if I end up making the rest of Lorwyn and have a core race with +1 either. (I do intend to do the rest of the races too, just not this weekend.)

Lorwyn Tribes:
Elves, Goblins, Elementals, Kithkin(Somewhere between Halflings and Dwarves), Treefolk, Merfolk, Faeries
I'm not sure how I want to implement them exactly.
I'm thinking everything except the Elemental types and treefolk should be 0 LA

So. . . you don't want core races to have any LA, but two of them will have LA? Or are the two with LA not core races (the Elementals and Treefolk?)

Damage Reduction isn't actually necessary, I just need some effect for Cold Iron to Emphasize it's fey-ness, and then something to balance whatever Cold Iron weakness is appropriate. How would you guys go about doing it/ how is it normally for Fey?

Also, what do fey normally get to make them different than humanoids? besides lowlight vision which elves have anyways.

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Fey_Type

Other than that, usually DR x/Cold Iron, often wild empathy, sometimes SR, often some spell-like abilities (say, invisibility or the like) and occasionally spells (e.g., Druid.)

I suppose for the more beefy races class levels would be OK but I want to avoid as much as possible anything that kills the Hit Points (what makes Level Adjustments kill you).

The level 1 drow wizard may be able to cast darkness but if any level 3 character hits him with ANYTHING he will be dead.

Which is why I mentioned racial classes. They can solve this kind of problem, quite elegantly. Particularly when teamed with paragon classes / evolved levels, they can effect a great deal of racial power and flexibility.

Weird thought. LA basically kills your HPs and Saves. but what about a Race whose bonus is more hitpoints. Like Treefolk. All I can figure you could do is either bonus hit points (logical to me) or give them like +20 to AC (Not logical to me, cause youre hitting them, it just takes longer to kill them).

I would suggest aiming lower when guesstimating LA, for starters. And yes, adding in some survival traits wouldn't hurt either.

 

[Ruslanchik]

I agree with Nifft about the mental stats. The penalty to Int does not balance the bonus to Cha because a sorc gains a great advantage having the extra charisma but suffers no real drawback for the Int penalty, except for 1 less skill point.

Using standard point-buy rules, you can get to 16 Cha but spending 6 points and 18 by spending 10 points. That's a huge benefit in my book that deserves an LA +1.

On the damage reduction, why don't you just go for DR 1/Cold Iron. The benefit for that is nice, but not game-breaking, at lower levels, and would still be useful at higher levels.

The problem with the damage reduction vs. vulnerability is that cold iron is usually somewhat uncommon--not that it is rare like diamonds, but it has such a specialized use that not a lot of monsters are just going to be carrying a cold iron sword.

 

[Sylrae]

The issue is I can't think of a way TO do Elementals and Treefolk without LA. I would if I could.

I need this finished by 11: PM tonight.

so could someone give me a thought on how to implement cold iron effects without saying a LA is necessary?

Nobody has even talked about it.

Does cold Iron damage vulnerability even out dr5/cold iron?
It's similar to Elementals and their damage vulnerabilities.

I'll check the forum when i get home in a couple hours.

 

[Nifft]

Does cold Iron damage vulnerability even out dr5/cold iron?
It's similar to Elementals and their damage vulnerabilities.

No.

Why not? Because PCs fight monsters, not other PCs. What works for monsters won't necessarily work for PCs.

DR/cold iron is much better for PCs than for monsters. Why? Because a party of PCs generally has one or more cold iron weapons, and monsters generally don't have any.

The Warlock shows a reasonable progression for this kind of DR.

Cheers, -- N

 

[WhatGravitas]

so could someone give me a thought on how to implement cold iron effects without saying a LA is necessary?

Nobody has even talked about it.

and make the damage reduction scaling: 1/Cold Iron, increases by +1 every fifth level (on 5th: 2/Cold Iron, on 10th: 3/Cold Iron, on 15th: 4/Cold Iron, on 20th: 5/Cold Iron)... thats good for the lower levels, albeit a tad weak for the higher levels.

However, what about just giving them that:
Damage Reduction: Lorwyn Elves have damage reduction 1/Cold Iron. This improves by +1 per fey feat (see Fey Heritage from Complete Mage, or make your own fey feats, as Fey Blood).

For elementals: Use genasi. Really, they embody most of the things the Lorwyn elementals embody.

Cheers, LT.

 

[Ruslanchik]

Damage Reduction: Lorwyn Elves have damage reduction 1/Cold Iron. This improves by +1 per fey feat (see Fey Heritage from Complete Mage, or make your own fey feats, as Fey Blood).

For elementals: Use genasi. Really, they embody most of the things the Lorwyn elementals embody.

Cheers, LT.

I agree. The DR/Cold Iron is basically like DR/- so it has to start small and increase over time.

You'll have to give up something from the standard elf, though. Perhaps the speed and increase and proficiencies?

 

[Sylrae]

OK. Talked with a couple people and got suggestions, and looked at what you guys wrote. Here's my proposed fix.

I dropped some of the bonus, dropped the vulnerability, and dropped some of the elf stuff.
Picked a more appropriate favored class.

What do you guys think now? (This is what I'm going to use for now since I'm out of time, but if you guys have a good revision, I'll swap it out.)

I wanted to have a 'hunter bonus' by increasing the +2 spot and listen and search, but that seemed like a bit much so I left it.

and a Side note, campaigns I've played in, and campaigns with this DM/players, have about half as much player player combat as player monster.

The guys I play with that I talked to said basically either drop all the elf spell resisting bonuses for a scaling dr (auto scaling by HD), or set it at a static 2 and just drop the sleep immunity. (I think I like the Idea that Lorwyn elves sleep anyways, and they probably do. - fae do.) So this is what I came up with.

What are your guys thoughts on this, is it less beefy?

Elf (Fey)
- +2 Cha, -2 Int
- Medium Size
- A Lorwyn Elf’s Base Land Speed is 40 feet.
- +2 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells or effects.
- Low Light Vision

- Damage Reduction 2/Cold Iron

- Weapon Proficiency: Lorwyn Elves are automatically proficient with the shortglaive, longbow, and shortbow.
- +2 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks. A Lorwyn elf who merely passes within 5 feet of a secret or concealed door is entitled to a search check to notice it as if she were actively looking for it.

- Automatic Languages: Common, Elven, Sylvan. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Celestial, Abyssal, Infernal

- Favored Class: Fighter
LA +0

Level 1 Optional Feat - Fey Blood: Upon taking the first level of Druid, a Lorwyn Elf can decide whether or not to casts druid spells using Charisma instead of Wisdom for all aspects from that point onward. Resist Nature’s Lore gives a +2 saving throw bonus against these Druid Spells, as they count as 50% fey magic.(New: Favored Class becomes Druid)

Level 1 Optional Feat: Scent - as the monster ability

 

[brehobit]

OK. Talked with a couple people and got suggestions, and looked at what you guys wrote. Here's my proposed fix.

I dropped some of the bonus, dropped the vulnerability, and dropped some of the elf stuff.
Picked a more appropriate favored class.

What do you guys think now? (This is what I'm going to use for now since I'm out of time, but if you guys have a good revision, I'll swap it out.)

Still a bit powerful. Return the "1.5x damage from cold iron" and I'd say you have a winner. As it stands, this is a very very powerful +0 LA race for a sorcerer or bard. Even a paladin would really like it.

 

[Sylrae]

I finally figured out what I want to work in for the Hunter abilities.

but it would raise its worth more.

How much LA is Scent worth? Would it be reasonable to take it as a feat? or is it worth less than that? - OK Scent is track with bonus .