LoTR: One Book To Rule Them All?

[Crust]

Am I missing a joke here? Led is the correct past tense of to lead.

Indeed... And yet Tolkien spelled it "led." See the above quote.

 

[Turjan]

Well, should I be grateful that Tolkien's work has caused the fantasy genre to be flooded with imitators of what I consider a novel of marginal quality in the first place? Should I be grateful that better writers such as Robert E. Howard, Clark Ashton Smith, H. P. Lovecraft, Fritz Leiber, Jack Vance, and Gene Wolfe are counted as Tolkien's lessers and have less influence upon the fantasy genre than he did?

I'm still not sure why Tolkien managed to get to the place where he is now. It might be partially due to the fact that, from the very beginnings, his work got promoted by educational institutions, and this in a time where the fantasy genre was considered "rubbish for the masses". In Germany, his work was first printed by a renowned publisher of schoolbooks.

I'm well aware of Tolkien's limitations as an author, but I'm not sure whether the others that have been mentioned are really that much better. As you might see from my handle, I like Jack Vance's writings very much. I love his works because of his play with words and the imagination that shines through all the details he gives, but if you look closely, you will notice that he is very weak at building characters (they are basically all identical), uses often weak stories with very weak endings. I like his works, nevertheless. But is he really that much better than Tolkien? I doubt it.

 

[mhacdebhandia]

I consider Vance a better writer because I consider him more imaginative than Tolkien - more original: where Tolkien took all the things from existing sources he was interested in and put them in a context appropriate to his worldview, Vance more often let his fancy run free.

I think he's better because his ideas jump off the page where Tolkien's lie calm and collected. I think his use of language was better - he's definitely a superior prose stylist. His pacing is better.

This is based solely on his Dying Earth stories, but then of course I'm comparing them to just the two novels Tolkien wrote.

 

[Ranes]

Edit #2: I'm getting my posters crossed.

 

[mmadsen]

The purpose of this thread was to determine what elements of LoTR need to be present in a story before it is considered derivative to the point where it diminishes the quality of the work.

I don't think we can draw any hard and fast rules about exactly which elements render a work derivative -- and, more importantly, I don't think it's the simple presence of derivative elements that makes a work "derivative" in the negative sense; it's the lack of anything beyond those derivative elements.

 

[Crust]

OK. Confusion solved. I apologize for any rudeness.

 

[Ranes]

Shoot me now.

 

[hong]

Anecdotally, my experience has been that the only people who think The Lord of the Rings is the best book ever written are those who don't read non-fantastic literature in general - and, since the vast majority of fantasy available is in imitation of Tolkien, it's not surprising that The Lord of the Rings stands out.

That's just been my personal experience - people who never enjoyed or paid attention to English classes in high school, people who never studied English at university, people who never read classic literature, people who simply don't have the experience to judge the true quality of The Lord of the Rings.

Screw the "true quality of the Lord of the Rings".

 

[Hussar]

Because they're excellent books that contain all of the state standard reading requirements for fiction covered in the PSSA (the PA standard assessment) and required by the state in classroom instruction.

Lots of books do that, obviously, but beyond the above, they showcase the finest example of literature to come out of the 20th century, in my opinion. The detail is unparalleled, and with the use of the fantastic Encyclopedia of Arda, the myriad of artwork out there, and the films, students have amazing resources to use in conjunction with the books, allowing for a complete understanding of what could be the first books students ever actually read.

Why shouldn't they be?

While I like the Professor, I agree with Turjan that the main reason we even know his name is because he got his book put on the reading syllabus at Oxford University. In all likelihood, had he not been in the position that he was in, we would never even be having this conversation.

Excellent creator of worlds? Yup.

Excellent writer? Not even remotely.

 

[mhacdebhandia]

Screw the "true quality of the Lord of the Rings".

I have a completely off-topic question. The video store you buy your Chinese DVDs from - is that in Dixon Street, near the top set of lion gates?

I'm reminded just because I was thinking of how your collection of movies has quite a few DVDs in it which I think are much better stories than you find in The Lord of the Rings.