"Love to Hate" versus "Hate to Hate"

[Draconis Imperium]

I like my evil villiens to be just a little more powerful than the PC's. This requires more prep time from me but I like the adventures more.

I like to give the PC's hope of finally destroying the evil one and he somehow slips away or pounds them until they need to run away. It keeps them begging to return.

I don't think a villien should be either a love to hate or hate to hate. I think your PC's should do both of them on different occasions. No villien should be one dimensional all the time. I play mine like I do my characters. Different moods and feelings. My main bad guy is a Evil Cleric- 1/2 orc who is motivated by revenge on elves. Of course my PC's foiled one of his minions so from time to time he takes time to throw something miserable their way but to him they are a nuisance right now, not a threat. Though as they gain levels they will become a threat. They are right now trying to find a way to defeat a dragon because he led them to believe it was the dragon doing for misfortunes. So he wants to enjoy watching them become dragon snacks. And he didn't need to do much

My 2 coppers for what its worth

 

[Simon Magalis]

I often have villains show up in groups or at least pairs. At least one of them will be redeemable or at least have a bit of humanity (or... dwarf...um... anity, as the case may be). I think that the uber evil villain can work, its just trickier.

 

[Hand of Evil]

This sounds like a big "Duh" when spelled out like that, but I suspect it's the kind of thing that is often assumed, and just as often overlooked in constructing an NPC. I am guilty of ignoring it, often looking to how an NPC can serve the plot or have an "interesting personality", rather than how he or she could serve to be personally engaging to the PCs/players.

Thou shalt make thy NPCs personally engaging to the PCs? Indeed...

What most DMs don't think about is that anyone(thing) can become a villian at anytime based on their actions, inactions, or charisma . It is up to the DM. Gamers seem to think that the villian has to be the big bad, not the guy they see behind the bar everyday or leaving next door.

I once had an NPC that was an ugly (speech, attitude, habits) creep. The player playing a female half-elf (17 cha) decided to interact to gather information. The players actions (what I saw as 'the flirt') made me decide on a little side adventure. He was a creep and he did some creepy things, like going threw her room, taking objects, hit and run with a wagon, dropping pots from the roof tops. He later was used by the mastermind.

 

[Desdichado]

Once, many years ago, my players loved to hate a rival adventuring group. They were good, actually, not villains. But they beat the PCs to a few spots where the PCs dallies instead of moving along like they probably should have. It really developed into more than just a "friendly" rivalry. It was tons of fun!

 

[terrestrialboy]

Unless my grizzled eyes fail me, no one has suggested Orcs at the Gates or Maul of America from Jolly Roger Games.
Both are a lot of fun with any number of people. The unfortunate thing is that one person has to be the Zombie Controller or the Orc Master, which cuts down on the player factor.
Of course, you could always pop out your copy of Chez Geek or Geeks the Convention and play those card games.
Take care.

 

[Psion]

Um, was that a drive-by spamming? What does that have to do with the topic? For that matter, what the hell is he talking about?

 

[Hand of Evil]

Um, was that a drive-by spamming? What does that have to do with the topic? For that matter, what the hell is he talking about?

Looking at his tag line, looks like a Nutkinland raid. Damn, squirrel.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Would a villain who is continually thwarted become a Keystone Cop, "Next time Gadget, next time!"-type though, with all bark and no bite? This is one of the main failings recognised among the 2E novel era FR villains - they were defeated at the end of every book, and became paper tigers of the toothless variety.

Well, yeah. I don't mean that the PCs should be able to thwart every scheme, or even most of them. Just that they need to feel some tangible results of their efforts, or at the very least feel confidant that they're working toward such tangible results.

On the other hand, a truly pathetic villain whom the PCs are constantly beating the stuffing out of, and yet whom they can't quite manage to capture or kill, might make some interesting comic relief--used in moderation, and only in more light-hearted campaigns, of course.

I've always wanted to actually be able to say, in-character, "And I would've gotten away with it, if it hadn't been for you meddling kids!!"

 

[Mark]

Looking at his tag line, looks like a Nutkinland raid. Damn, squirrel.

I think it is more innocent than that. I believe we have witnessed the first post of someone who likes to keep a number of windows open. I think terrestrialboy meant to post that to Furn Darkside's "[OT] Board Game suggestions?" thread. He likely won't find it there when he looks, post an inquiry to the mods and have that moved to META (thus causing even more confusion).

Welcome, terrestrialboy!

 

[terrestrialboy]

Woah, crap in a hat.
Sorry about that, guys. Looks like a snafu in posting put my reply here instead of where it should have been.
You all should slap me on the belly with a wet trout and move on.

See yuz.

Ethan Parker