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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Campbell" data-source="post: 7787282" data-attributes="member: 16586">So a 5e Barbarian with 18 Strength and 16 Constitution does 2d6+6 damage with a maul while raging. He also has 15 hit points, takes half damage to all physical damage, and will have a significantly higher AC than a a Wizard. The Wizard's best cantrips do d8 damage and the only single target damage spell available until 11th level is magic missile which does 3d4+3. It scales horribly only doing 1d4+1. Cantrips do not scale until 5th level when martial all get another attack.The disparity gets much worse as levels raise. At 2nd level Reckless Attack comes online dramatically improving accuracy and rate of critical attacks.At 3rd level he can Frenzy granting the ability to make an attack with a bonus action.At 5th level he gains a second attack. With frenzy he is making 3 attacks with advantage at his full attack bonus. +8 2d6+7 3 times with advantage while a wizard's Ray of Frost does 2d8. Or the Wizard can use a 3rd level slot for Magic Missile to do 5d4+5.The Barbarian also has a high movement speed in a game where movement has no effect on your ability to do damage. He can use Strength to hit with his thrown weapons. Rage is a bonus action so it basically costs him nothing in terms of action economy. Without rage he merely does damage like a fighter.I'll have more analysis on first level spells later, but overall I think the PF2 Wizard is in a much better place than the 5e Wizard.</blockquote>

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