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<blockquote data-quote="Fanaelialae" data-source="post: 7788938" data-attributes="member: 53980">Sleep can still win an encounter by itself. While creatures under its influence will no longer automatically sleep through combat, it's actually been improved in that it's no longer limited to 4 HD total.Creatures don't get a Perception check to wake up until the start of their turn, so the trick is simple. Sleep everyone, be quiet so as to not give them reason to wake, and ready actions to kill them. Because they're asleep, they have to make their perception check at a -4 against the party's stealth. Play your cards right and most of the party gets their readied attack and their turn, before the enemy can act.It's not much less reliable than the PF version which also allowed a save and couldn't be used on tougher encounters due to the HD limit. In that version, if you missed even one creature it would often be ineffective, since that creature could use its action to shake the next creature awake, which could shake the next creature awake, and so on. In PF2, if you fail to sleep everyone the party has a window of opportunity to take advantage of hitting the sleeping creature with a -6 penalty to AC, which is an enormous bonus in this system. The aforementioned fighter with a 65% hit chance goes up to 95%, and his crit chance goes from 15% to 45%! How's that for flashy?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Fanaelialae, post: 7788938, member: 53980"] Sleep can still win an encounter by itself. While creatures under its influence will no longer automatically sleep through combat, it's actually been improved in that it's no longer limited to 4 HD total. Creatures don't get a Perception check to wake up until the start of their turn, so the trick is simple. Sleep everyone, be quiet so as to not give them reason to wake, and ready actions to kill them. Because they're asleep, they have to make their perception check at a -4 against the party's stealth. Play your cards right and most of the party gets their readied attack and their turn, before the enemy can act. It's not much less reliable than the PF version which also allowed a save and couldn't be used on tougher encounters due to the HD limit. In that version, if you missed even one creature it would often be ineffective, since that creature could use its action to shake the next creature awake, which could shake the next creature awake, and so on. In PF2, if you fail to sleep everyone the party has a window of opportunity to take advantage of hitting the sleeping creature with a -6 penalty to AC, which is an enormous bonus in this system. The aforementioned fighter with a 65% hit chance goes up to 95%, and his crit chance goes from 15% to 45%! How's that for flashy? [/QUOTE]

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