low-light and concealment

[ogre]

How does low-light vision and darkvision for that matter effect concealment miss chances and hide skill bonuses? The description is rather vague.
Low-Light Vision (Ex): A creature with low-light vision can see twice as far as normal in poor lightning conditions. The creature can still distinguish colors, even in dim lighting.
Table: Concealment

Concealment (Example) Miss Chance
One-quarter (light fog; light foliage) 10%
One-half (shadows; dense fog at 5 ft.) 20%
Three-quarters (dense foliage) 30%
Nine-tenths (near total darkness) 40%
Total (attacker blind; total darkness; smoke grenade; dense fog at 10 ft.) 50% and must guess target's location
Helpless Defenders

Does low-light negate the miss chance altogether, lower it to a lesser grade?
What about Darkvision?

 

[Aussiegamer]

low light creatures are considered to see twice as far as the light source limit.

In the open sky, then moonlight means that they see normally.

The concealment from other sources such as fog, stay the same. It only helps with "low light" conditions which it removes totally.

In D&D 3.5 there is shadow affect from light rad to 2x, so low light creatures can see normally in those conditions as a human can see in the light source area.

darkvision means no matter the light source they can see 60' or 120'. But only the light conditions are affected, once again fog or such restricts as per concealment table.

So light light vision removes 20% for shadows but not near dark 90%

darkvision removes total, near dark and shadows up to vision limits.

 

[ogre]

Ok, so you're saying, low-light vision completely negates one-half concealment associated with light/shadows only (20%), out to twice the distance a human can normally see, but doesn't reduce the 40% of near dark (nine-tenths) at all.
Darkvision negates all concealment miss chances due to darkness up to the range limit.
Ok, makes sense. Thanks!

 

[Aussiegamer]

yep the guidelines seem to say that.

It removes the penalty for shadows but thats all.

BUT...you could rule that it reduces the near darkness 40% to 20% as well, but GM call.

It ONLY removes concealment due to light conditions only, for both low light and darkvision.

 

[tylermalan]

As already pointed out, Low-light Vision only concerns itself with light. Concealment granted by dense foliage, for instance, wouldn't have anything to do with Low-light Vision, or vice versa.

In D&D 3.5, each light source has basically two values - closer and farther away.

A torch provides bright illumination (no concealment) within 20 feet. Between 20 and 40 feet, it provides shadowy (I think) illumination, which grants concealment. If you had Low-light Vision, you effectively double both of those ranges, making the torch provide bright illumination to 40 feet (no concealment) and shadowy to 80 feet, which grants concealment. I don't know if this is detailed in d20 Modern, though. If not, it shouldn't be too difficult to add in.

 

[ogre]

It's odd when I look at the 3.5 SRD, it doesn't mentioned concealment at all.
Though I agree with both your assessments here and appreciate the feedback, I'm going to post this in the Rules forum and see what others think.

 

[Aussiegamer]

It don't think that it doubles the entire area of the light source, only allows the creature to see into the first shadow area.

If as, per example above, the source doubles and has shadowy area again, well then since they see normally into that type of lighht, they coiuld once again see in it normally.

So it only removes the concealment affect (Effectively doubling the lights radius for vision) and does not effectively double the light source.

 

[tylermalan]

The PHB 3.5 says to double the ranges of both values.

 

[Aussiegamer]

What page of the PHB?

From a SRD I found.

Low-Light Vision
Characters with low-light vision have eyes that are so sensitive to light that they can see twice as far as normal in dim light. Low-light vision is color vision. A spellcaster with low-light vision can read a scroll as long as even the tiniest candle flame is next to her as a source of light.

Characters with low-light vision can see outdoors on a moonlit night as well as they can during the day.

It does say twice as far, but that could mean no shadow effect thus 2xnormal light area.

Though it does mention the moonlight outdoors

 

[tylermalan]

What page of the PHB?

From a SRD I found.


It does say twice as far, but that could mean no shadow effect thus 2xnormal light area.

Though it does mention the moonlight outdoors

PHB 3.5, pg. 165 - "Characters with low-light vision (elves, gnomes, and half-elves) can see objects twice as far away as the given radius. Double the effective radius of bright light and shadowy illumination for such characters."