[hijack]S'mon- the next time I get the urge to design a Finnish themed PC, I'm going to bug you first! 
[/hijack]
[/hijack]
"low" magic campaign using D&D rules
- Thread starter Najo
- Start date
Shamanistic magic is still one that D&D just hasn't quite gotten straight... Too bad, too.
Dannyalcatraz said:
D&D's Gygaxian magic system was based on medieval Catholicism & occultism with a bit of Vance, and a highly Cartesian dualist world-view; unsurprisingly this doesn't work with a Shamanistic (or any pantheist) world-view. Greg Stafford's Runequest is quiet handy for an alternative view.
Particle_Man
Explorer
an alternative
Hmmm...one alternative that might help is the "two worlds, two characters" approach. In world A, all characters, whether NPC or PC, are human commoners. The PCs have one magic item apiece, that can't be gotten rid of, called the "dreamstones", which are extremely rare, and marks them as "dream warriors". These characters are charged with protecting world A from world B, the "dream world", while they sleep.
When asleep, the characters' spirit selves, due to the magic of the dreamstones, go to world B. Here you have whatever class or race the player wants for the character, and they get magic, and magic items, as per the standard rules, but there are no standard race NPCs (except perhaps the occasional other dream warrior, perhaps a mentor or two). The dream warrior is an avatar of the human commoner, and exists to combat the foes that try to organize and raid world A, if ever they gain enough power. Thus the dream warriors' job it to eliminate these dream threats by "killing things and taking their stuff".
I should note that I call these "dream threats" but they are potential threats to world A, if ever one of them gets too much power. Thus the dream warriors are on a constant quest to stop power bases in world B from being built up.
Because if the dream monsters from world B ever get enough power, world A would have no defence against them, and the dream warriors know that.
An advantage of this method is that it can explain why a character suddenly disappears and reappears (if, for instance, that character's player could not make a session). The character "woke up", and then "got to sleep again".
A disadvantage is that is requires two levels of suspension of disbelief, which might be one too many. Also, world B will be pretty genocidal, with all or most of the PC/NPC interaction occuring in world A.
Najo said:
Hmmm...one alternative that might help is the "two worlds, two characters" approach. In world A, all characters, whether NPC or PC, are human commoners. The PCs have one magic item apiece, that can't be gotten rid of, called the "dreamstones", which are extremely rare, and marks them as "dream warriors". These characters are charged with protecting world A from world B, the "dream world", while they sleep.
When asleep, the characters' spirit selves, due to the magic of the dreamstones, go to world B. Here you have whatever class or race the player wants for the character, and they get magic, and magic items, as per the standard rules, but there are no standard race NPCs (except perhaps the occasional other dream warrior, perhaps a mentor or two). The dream warrior is an avatar of the human commoner, and exists to combat the foes that try to organize and raid world A, if ever they gain enough power. Thus the dream warriors' job it to eliminate these dream threats by "killing things and taking their stuff".
I should note that I call these "dream threats" but they are potential threats to world A, if ever one of them gets too much power. Thus the dream warriors are on a constant quest to stop power bases in world B from being built up.
Because if the dream monsters from world B ever get enough power, world A would have no defence against them, and the dream warriors know that.
An advantage of this method is that it can explain why a character suddenly disappears and reappears (if, for instance, that character's player could not make a session). The character "woke up", and then "got to sleep again".
A disadvantage is that is requires two levels of suspension of disbelief, which might be one too many. Also, world B will be pretty genocidal, with all or most of the PC/NPC interaction occuring in world A.
Cold Comfort
First Post
I ran a campaign set in a world with destabilized magic, which made things more expensive and created a low(er) magic world. Here's some of the stuff I tried:
-have "well crafted" versions of items. This was mentioned earlier in the thread. I made 3 tiers of quality in my world, with smiths of great renown making really, really great mundane items. They gave bonuses comparable to magical items, but had to be made for a specific user, and were very difficult to obtain. You could make them as common as magic in D&D though, if you want to maintain power levels.
-increase the cost of magic. This makes it far less viable for people to have. I added a x4 multiplier on the generic bought magical items. Why hire 1 guy with a +1 sword when you could have 40 men with clubs? (For the record, they're all the same level, before anyone says +1 sword man would be more experienced.)
-make spells more difficult to cast, or more rare. If people haven't seen magic, then they're more impressed. As PCs, when they have little access to that kind of power, it becomes more special to them when they get it. Withholding it to a certain degree will likely make it more special when they do get it. I like the idea of spells taking longer to cast, but you could also increase the effects to make up for the delay. (Assuming you want to keep all the power levels the same.) So when that fireball that takes 3 rounds to cast goes off, it does 3x the damage. Blamo. Makes wizards more feared, but also gives them a hideous Achilles heel. Or more of one, I guess. Another way
-make magic controlled/hated Have a guild of mages, to which all mages have to belong, who jealously guard the secrets of magic. Again, due to its rarity and difficulty to obtain, then it becomes more special when it's acquired. Or, have the populace and ruling churches hate magic. Magic will then again be something terrifying, because no one has seen it, and there are rumours and stories surrounding it which make it horrifying. "Magic is powered by demons! All those who witness magic will see their children die slowly! Magic makes you sterile! Magic users will be sawn in half, then hung, then drowned, then burned!" You get the idea. Makes players more cautious when using it, the populace doesn't have it, but certain elements will still have it available. The sanity rules in Unearthed Arcana tie into this well. If all magic users eventually go insane, then you have a bunch of powerful, destructive psychos on your hands, something which regional governments wouldn't want... It's a good reason to make it controlled, and also makes players much more wary of its power.
-each magic item is unique Eliminate all the mundane magical items. Make players discover what the abilities of an item are over time, (essentially like an artifiact would be, though maybe not as powerful). They don't have to be superweapons either, a sword that you can command to glow in darkness, or which can be quickdrawn without a feat (leaps to the wielder's hand in danger, or on command, just for flavour) is still really cool, valuable and unique. Give them names, histories, stuff like that, and dole them out very slowly. Give the party a bunch, perhaps one intended for each character, and then as they discover their powers, have them distribute them amongst themselves as appropriate. Make up your own abilities for them. (What about a bow that weakens enemies to the next spell you cast, effectively raising the DC? A necklace that allows the wearer to perfectly mimic any voice? A bag of holding that has enough air to last days?) Do things the players don't expect, and force them to experiment with things, rather than flat out telling them, "It's a sword, you get +1 to hit." Cursed items are fun too, you can do lots of interesting stuff with that as well. (Gloves which instantly fling any weapon/item they touch at the ground? Terrible if you want to hold a sword, but if you can get your hands on your opponent's weapon, he's screwed too!)
...wow, that's gotten really long-winded. Hope there's something useful in there.
-have "well crafted" versions of items. This was mentioned earlier in the thread. I made 3 tiers of quality in my world, with smiths of great renown making really, really great mundane items. They gave bonuses comparable to magical items, but had to be made for a specific user, and were very difficult to obtain. You could make them as common as magic in D&D though, if you want to maintain power levels.
-increase the cost of magic. This makes it far less viable for people to have. I added a x4 multiplier on the generic bought magical items. Why hire 1 guy with a +1 sword when you could have 40 men with clubs? (For the record, they're all the same level, before anyone says +1 sword man would be more experienced.)
-make spells more difficult to cast, or more rare. If people haven't seen magic, then they're more impressed. As PCs, when they have little access to that kind of power, it becomes more special to them when they get it. Withholding it to a certain degree will likely make it more special when they do get it. I like the idea of spells taking longer to cast, but you could also increase the effects to make up for the delay. (Assuming you want to keep all the power levels the same.) So when that fireball that takes 3 rounds to cast goes off, it does 3x the damage. Blamo. Makes wizards more feared, but also gives them a hideous Achilles heel. Or more of one, I guess. Another way
-make magic controlled/hated Have a guild of mages, to which all mages have to belong, who jealously guard the secrets of magic. Again, due to its rarity and difficulty to obtain, then it becomes more special when it's acquired. Or, have the populace and ruling churches hate magic. Magic will then again be something terrifying, because no one has seen it, and there are rumours and stories surrounding it which make it horrifying. "Magic is powered by demons! All those who witness magic will see their children die slowly! Magic makes you sterile! Magic users will be sawn in half, then hung, then drowned, then burned!" You get the idea. Makes players more cautious when using it, the populace doesn't have it, but certain elements will still have it available. The sanity rules in Unearthed Arcana tie into this well. If all magic users eventually go insane, then you have a bunch of powerful, destructive psychos on your hands, something which regional governments wouldn't want... It's a good reason to make it controlled, and also makes players much more wary of its power.
-each magic item is unique Eliminate all the mundane magical items. Make players discover what the abilities of an item are over time, (essentially like an artifiact would be, though maybe not as powerful). They don't have to be superweapons either, a sword that you can command to glow in darkness, or which can be quickdrawn without a feat (leaps to the wielder's hand in danger, or on command, just for flavour) is still really cool, valuable and unique. Give them names, histories, stuff like that, and dole them out very slowly. Give the party a bunch, perhaps one intended for each character, and then as they discover their powers, have them distribute them amongst themselves as appropriate. Make up your own abilities for them. (What about a bow that weakens enemies to the next spell you cast, effectively raising the DC? A necklace that allows the wearer to perfectly mimic any voice? A bag of holding that has enough air to last days?) Do things the players don't expect, and force them to experiment with things, rather than flat out telling them, "It's a sword, you get +1 to hit." Cursed items are fun too, you can do lots of interesting stuff with that as well. (Gloves which instantly fling any weapon/item they touch at the ground? Terrible if you want to hold a sword, but if you can get your hands on your opponent's weapon, he's screwed too!)
...wow, that's gotten really long-winded. Hope there's something useful in there.
Let me interject this:
There are LOTS of ways we've presented to run low-magic, and we haven't exhausted the list...
What YOU need to do is figure out is:
1) What exactly you mean by low-magic: rare magic? low-level magic? weak magic? magic is a lost art?
2) Why your world is low magic: running out of mana? magic has just been discovered? magic is simply less powerful? someone killed all the spellcasters?
Once you answer those 2 questions, solutions will begin to present themselves...if they haven't already showed up in this thread.
There are LOTS of ways we've presented to run low-magic, and we haven't exhausted the list...
What YOU need to do is figure out is:
1) What exactly you mean by low-magic: rare magic? low-level magic? weak magic? magic is a lost art?
2) Why your world is low magic: running out of mana? magic has just been discovered? magic is simply less powerful? someone killed all the spellcasters?
Once you answer those 2 questions, solutions will begin to present themselves...if they haven't already showed up in this thread.
IMC magic is in every object or person. You need a "gift" to be able to shape magic (thus limiting the number of NPC casters, PCs get it automaticaly).
Low level magic is common, even in a village there might be a witch or hedge-wizard capapble of casting lvl 0 or 1 spells, so commoners are familiar with magic and not more afraid of it than from a raging orc with a greataxe.
There are enough casters around that you can't afford to neglect magical defense, but not enough to secure every castle or stronghold with magic. Instead they use the innate magical fields every object radiates. If combined corretly, you can counter any magical threat to your castle and even create permanent anti-magic fields. Of course doing so costs the same as having the appropriate magical defense. So you can have castle secured against magical intrusion without involving a high level caster.
Examples:
Certain gems cut in a special way pick up magial radiation and resonate it, merchants use them to prevent beeing cheated with illusions, charms and such.
The shape of arched doorways weakens illusions. Walking through a normal door will probably only make weak illusions fickle for a split seond, but walking through a large castle gate will supress all but the mightiest illusions.
Low level magic is common, even in a village there might be a witch or hedge-wizard capapble of casting lvl 0 or 1 spells, so commoners are familiar with magic and not more afraid of it than from a raging orc with a greataxe.
There are enough casters around that you can't afford to neglect magical defense, but not enough to secure every castle or stronghold with magic. Instead they use the innate magical fields every object radiates. If combined corretly, you can counter any magical threat to your castle and even create permanent anti-magic fields. Of course doing so costs the same as having the appropriate magical defense. So you can have castle secured against magical intrusion without involving a high level caster.
Examples:
Certain gems cut in a special way pick up magial radiation and resonate it, merchants use them to prevent beeing cheated with illusions, charms and such.
The shape of arched doorways weakens illusions. Walking through a normal door will probably only make weak illusions fickle for a split seond, but walking through a large castle gate will supress all but the mightiest illusions.
Similar Threads
