Low Magic: Craft Magic

[HeapThaumaturgist]

I'm trying to build a new type of magic for my Grim Tales game based, not around spellcasting, but around CRAFTING items. Some of it is currently in playtest:

Basically it's based on some new feats and the idea of Invention Points from RPGObjects' Blood and Circuits. Instead of Invention Points, though, I'll just call them Craft Magic Points. You generate Craft Magic Points by making normal Craft skill checks, where the number rolled is the number of Craft Magic Points generated {I.E. My Craft (Tailor) is +6, I roll 1d20 (13) + 6 for a total of 19 Craft Points generated by that roll.} Craft checks for Craft Magic are, as usual, made at one per-week with checks exceeding the number of points needed by x2 or x3 reducing the time needed by a similar factor.

It works like this:

You have Craft Magic (Constant Item) {a Feat}. You want to build some Gloves Of Climbing +3.

You would roll Craft Checks to build the base item, as per the skill rules. Then to Masterwork the item for enchanting. (This is normal Grim Tales Craft skill, taking the normal amount of time.)

Enchantment is a little different. To enchant your new Mastercrafted item, you need to build up a number of Craft Magic Points equal to 1/3 of the XP to be spent on crafting the item. In this case it is (Bonus Squared) x 14 for a Skill Bonus item, so 42 Craft Points and 126 XP. Our Tailor has an average check of around 17. This would leave him rolling, on average, 2-3 Craft (Tailoring) checks and taking 14 days in order to craft his Gloves of Climbing +3. At the end of the crafting period he would also spend 126xp into the item to finish the enchantment.

Adding to the joy of crafting is the penalty associated with it: After successfully crafting a magical item, the crafter will be Fatigued for a number of days equal to the number of rolls he required to complete the magi-crafting component. In our example, the Tailor would be Fatigued for 2-3 days. (Fatigued: -2 Str and Dex, cannot Run or Charge).

I'll demonstrate with another item: Our Tailor now would like to create a Hat of Disguise +4. He would roll a craft check to build the item (DC 10, Cost 15sp). He rolls an 18 on his Craft (Tailoring) skill check. 18 x 10 = 180. He completes the hat itself in about 1/2 a day. Now he needs to Mastercraft the hat. I use Wealth rules, so a Mastercrafted Hat costs DC 7 or 50sp. He makes another Craft check, rolling a 21. 21 x 20 = 420 so he mastercrafts it in record time as well. (C'mon, it's a hat.) Now, however, is the hard part. 4 x 4 = 16 ... x 14 = 224. It will cost 224 XP to create the item and he'll need to make 74 Craft Magic Points to finish it. Average 17 again, taking 4 rolls and 28 days to complete the actual enchantments to the hat. The Tailor will be Fatigued for 4 days after his hat is complete.

This works with the feats we've created:

Craft Magic (Constant Item)
Prereq: 5 Ranks in Craft (any), 3rd level
Benefit: You can create magical items who have constant effects. The Competance bonus to skills cannot exceed your Ranks in the appropriate Craft skill. The bonus an item grants to Abilities or Saves cannot exceed 1/3 your Ranks in the appropriate Craft skill. Bonuses to AC cannot exceed 1/5 your Ranks in the appropriate Craft skill.


We're currently removing any spell effects until we've integrated this system to a modified Black Company spell effects DC system.

Not sure if this is even coherent for anybody, but I'm looking for some feedback. We're going to be playtesting THIS next Sunday, as the Wizard for the game this is for decided to take Craft Magic (Minor Constant Item) as a feat this session. He wants to make some Robes of Wizardry (Use Magic +5), which we think will take him something on the order of 38 days and will leave him Fatigued for 6 days. The economy of their small city-state depends upon their trade in minor Craft Magic items ... low magic, but not especially RARE magic. Wizards are rare, but Craftmasons (those with Craft Magic feats) are not as hard to find.

(What will be easier/cheaper will be building items with Ghost Sounds or Prestidigitation effects bound to them. Music boxes that play themselves. Jewels that glow. Stuff like that. Those are the major trade goods for the city. Small, expensive things traded elsewhere in areas Craft Magic is unavailable.)

--fje

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

On the whole, I like it, but a couple of things jump out at me:

The time between Craft checks is as follows:

5-10 Ranks: 3 Days
11-15 Ranks: Daily
16-20 Ranks: Twice Daily

The Craft skill already assumes Time into the equation. A Craft check represents one week, and by monkeying with it you increase the value of higher ranks exponentially. You could make Crafting happen faster, but you should simply standardize it-- a Craft check represents one day, for example (although that is way too fast and would do funny things to your economy).

Put another way, a person with a high Craft skill already Crafts more quickly-- he rolls higher and builds up "completion" faster. If he builds up more "completion" than needed for the task, the duration of the Craft check is reduced accordingly. There's no need to also allow him to make more rolls.

What I am saying is that I would avoid having the way the Craft skill actually works be different for different people based on the number of ranks achieved. Think of it as a single function into which the # of ranks (or the result achieved) can be plugged. Changing the function based on the number of ranks twists the effect (usually exponentially).

Craft Magic (Minor Constant Item)
Prereq: 5 Ranks in Craft (any), 3rd level
Benefit: You can create Constant Items which grant Skill bonuses of +5 or less, Enhancement bonuses to stats of +2, Resistance bonuses to saves of +2 or less, and Deflection bonuses to AC of +1.

Craft Magic (Moderate Constant Item)
Craft Magic (Major Constant Item)

You've overbalanced this, I think. Keep in mind you've already got a limiter built in if you want it: The Craft skill itself. Someone with Craft: seamstress may be able to make that hat, but isn't going to be much use when you want a magic amulet or staff.

A single Item Creation feat whose maximum effect is based on the number of ranks achieved is cleaner and more realistic-- unless you want to discourage PCs from making magic items.

But if that's the case, just don't let them do it and you save yourself a lot of time creating feats no-one will ever take and rules no one will ever use-- I'd rather seek out a master craftsman or wait to find a magic item, than waste 3 feats mastering a single facet of item creation.

Wulf

 

[Turanil]

In fact, as much as I find the idea excellent for D&D, i don't like it for Grim Tales.

The fact is, D&D is a game in which PCs (especially at higher levels) tend to be loaded with magical items. Then, since magical items are (in typical games) found at every corner, why a spellcaster would foolishly lose XP to manufacture something he may reasonably expect to find in the next treasure trove? As such, I would readily allow your system in D&D.

On the other hand, GT is intended for a low magic game where casting spells comes at a cost. Quickly a dire cost if the character dares to cast more than a couple of low-level spells per day. But now, you allow to manufacture magic items without XP cost? For what? So spellcasters will spend their time crafting magical items and compensate difficult casting with easy use of magic items? (Okay exaggeration here). Well, for Grim Tales, this is the specifically the kind of world where I think XP cost for item creation is appropriate.

 

[DMH]

Another type of object magic is found in The Enchiridion of Treasures and Objects D'Art from ST Cooley. It has ensorceling, where the caster brings out the magic of the material. He has a huge list of various gems, woods, skins and other things. The cost however is spell slots permanently lost. When that is done, the caster does not have to pay any gp cost of the ensorceling, but does have to pay the xp cost. It can be used along side your craft magic ideas. It also has a much better set of rules for crafting.

Check out the reviews for it.

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

Thanks for the replies thus far. To address some of the comments:

WULF: I agree. I'm thinking on it. At first I wanted to say: "But that takes too much time." But, I think you're right. I just ported it from BnC and started playing with it ... found it too fast and moved it to one grade slower. Should have thought about scrapping it entirely. Because there's no multiple, however, it will take quite a bit longer ... we're going to adjust that below.

I suppose tying Ranks and Max Bonus directly to one another would make more sense than multiple craft item feats. I guess I'm a little too quick on the squelch, but this was an idea I had kicking around that always seemed TOO good because it isn't tied to pre-existing magical aptitude. There's no required spell ranks, no required spellcaster level. A dwarven Fighter who had been pumping extra ranks into Craft: Leatherworking could, perhaps, take this feat and whip himself up some Gauntlets of Ogre Power in a few ... months without any additional feats/abilities. But I suppose I did a decent job of making TIME a limiting factor. Who has 6 months to wait for their Gauntlets of Ogre Power?

Even squelched up to high heaven one of the players was interested in taking a feat in the chain. I'll make it the single feat and we'll try out the new rules on Sunday. He wants to make himself a Robe of Use Magic +5 and, eventually, craft 50 minor items of Profession: Sailor +1 for the entire crew of the ship, as a badge of honor for the stalwart crew of their (not quite yet) legendary airship.

TURANIL: I'm not removing the XP cost of items at all. It still remains. What I'm removing is the SPELLCASTING component to making items. A Magi-crafter doesn't need to know any spells ... in a campaign without any other sort of magic, all magic would come from items and would exist (thus-far) in the form of Skill, Stat, and AC bonuses granted by items. Not only does the XP cost still exist, the more XP the item costs the longer it takes to craft it. Like Wulf already did, I assume, it encourages more small items of Skill enhancemnt while discouraging Wand of Magic Missiles. (Right now, wands of any sort would be non-existant, as I haven't made a feat to cover them.)

DMH: I'll look into the Enchiridion of Etc etc. Haven't yet heard of it, but I'm usually outside of the D&D-based d20 3rd-party pubs.

EDIT: After consulting with my player, we think that Magi-Crafting would then be too SLOW. Crafting anything more than a +5 skill enhancement item would take even a master crafter many months. A Mantle of Spell Resistance (13) would take a Tailor with +20 Tailoring something like 12 months, on average, to finish. There's nothing saying that Craft Magic Points have to be on a 1/1 basis with XP. We're thinking Craft Points should be equal to 1/3 XP needed to complete the item? Allowing that master tailor to complete his robe in 4 months and he'll be Fatigued for 15 days. Still a large amount of time, but considerably less than a year of dedicated labor. I want time to be a limiter, but not so eggregious that no-one can consider crafting ANYTHING. A problem with mapping XP to time, I suppose. It's assumed that at higher levels, casters have the XP to burn ... but never the time.

Will be editing the first post to reflect my changes.

--fje