Low magic rulebook anyone?
- Thread starter Turjan
- Start date
True - and point of fact - I think there is definitely room for a 'generic' low-magic setting book for 3e.
As for using 'established monsters' for a low magic setting, don't the 'established monsters' all presume a high magic setting, making them somewhat intrinsically flawed for use in a low magic setting?
O.k., says you, that isn't very useful, T.S. I still want to use a damn (fill in the monster), low-magic or no.
Fine. Presume you have an all fighter party in a "standard" game of 3e - following your [jmucchiello's] magic assumptions- what is the difference?
Well, their weapons/armor wouldn't have as high a bonus, and special abilities would be unlikely. Their access to healing magic, presumably potions, would be less. Low-magic settings already have to contend with the "hit point" question, long before they worry about magic items.
In most cases I would adjust the hypothetical monster by lowering its armor class, BAB, and Str/Dam.
Or not - some GMs are cruel that way.
My thought to you, is what happens to game balance between a fighter and the other classes when you adjust their magic abilities downward without corresponding compensation?
Which is why, returning to my first point, I think there is definetly a place for a generic low-magic setting sourcebook - one that redefines all of the core classes for use in a low-magic setting.
As for using 'established monsters' for a low magic setting, don't the 'established monsters' all presume a high magic setting, making them somewhat intrinsically flawed for use in a low magic setting?
O.k., says you, that isn't very useful, T.S. I still want to use a damn (fill in the monster), low-magic or no.
Fine. Presume you have an all fighter party in a "standard" game of 3e - following your [jmucchiello's] magic assumptions- what is the difference?
Well, their weapons/armor wouldn't have as high a bonus, and special abilities would be unlikely. Their access to healing magic, presumably potions, would be less. Low-magic settings already have to contend with the "hit point" question, long before they worry about magic items.
In most cases I would adjust the hypothetical monster by lowering its armor class, BAB, and Str/Dam.
Or not - some GMs are cruel that way.
My thought to you, is what happens to game balance between a fighter and the other classes when you adjust their magic abilities downward without corresponding compensation?
Which is why, returning to my first point, I think there is definetly a place for a generic low-magic setting sourcebook - one that redefines all of the core classes for use in a low-magic setting.
jmucchiello
Hero
This is the question in a bunch of threads. Your party of fighters in an average world will have a set # of gp worth of money tied up in treasure and magic items. In a magic-poor world they cannot possibly acquire that much magic. Because of this imbalance the monster have to be adjusted downward or their CRs have to go up.TSL said:
My monster adjusting was in response to older posts involving a book contain a few sample settings along with an application of how to alter the magic of the world. I said this would require all new monsters or a set of rules on how to alter the existing monsters.
Read the first few posts again to see where we're coming from.
Turjan
Explorer
The book we talked about was thought not only to cope with classic "low magic" settings, but additionally something else I might better describe as "weak magic".
The latter means, that bards, paladins and rangers keep their magic abilities, but they are much less powerful (maybe more illusions and such, no plot-spoiling "detect evil" radar, etc.). You can leave the cleric at home in his church, thereby making him essentially a NPC class. The weaker healing spells could become arcane spells, whereas the powerful cleric spells would be abolished. Sticking to Vancian magic, the arcane spellcasters may have the same number of spells, but a different selection, either more specialized, or/(and) less powerful. All classes have a very limited access to powerful magic items. No greater divinations, continent-shaping spells, no travels through time and space. Maybe spellcasters have to be compensated with slightly better combat abilities, but this depends on the actual spell list.
Okay, this only for clarification. I think, the problem with the monster CR's will stay exactly the same in this model compared to a true "low magic" setting. So I hope there is not too much double work to be done in this field
.
The latter means, that bards, paladins and rangers keep their magic abilities, but they are much less powerful (maybe more illusions and such, no plot-spoiling "detect evil" radar, etc.). You can leave the cleric at home in his church, thereby making him essentially a NPC class. The weaker healing spells could become arcane spells, whereas the powerful cleric spells would be abolished. Sticking to Vancian magic, the arcane spellcasters may have the same number of spells, but a different selection, either more specialized, or/(and) less powerful. All classes have a very limited access to powerful magic items. No greater divinations, continent-shaping spells, no travels through time and space
. Maybe spellcasters have to be compensated with slightly better combat abilities, but this depends on the actual spell list.Okay, this only for clarification. I think, the problem with the monster CR's will stay exactly the same in this model compared to a true "low magic" setting. So I hope there is not too much double work to be done in this field
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It seems to me that the idea of using D20 Modern was dismissed awfully quickly.
All you really need to do is trade the skill lists, feat lists, equipment lists, and wealth system with the standard D&D lists/system, and decide how low your low magic is.
Shadow Hunters provides a very low magic system, but still has plenty of monsters and whatnot.
Urban Arcana is more like standard D&D but if you set it in a fantasy world, it would probably work really well as a lower magic setting (albeit not THAT low).
The D20 Modern book also has plenty of monsters in it, which are already adjusted to the low magic level (although they still probably assume guns will be used).
The only real work I can see anyone who owns d20 modern and the D&D core rulebooks doing would be changing the advanced classes so that they resemble the D&D classes rather than modern archetypes, and creating some more fantasy based magic items.
Good Luck!
Samnite, self-proclaimed master of quick campaign fixes that he'll never use due to his annoying gaming group.
All you really need to do is trade the skill lists, feat lists, equipment lists, and wealth system with the standard D&D lists/system, and decide how low your low magic is.
Shadow Hunters provides a very low magic system, but still has plenty of monsters and whatnot.
Urban Arcana is more like standard D&D but if you set it in a fantasy world, it would probably work really well as a lower magic setting (albeit not THAT low).
The D20 Modern book also has plenty of monsters in it, which are already adjusted to the low magic level (although they still probably assume guns will be used).
The only real work I can see anyone who owns d20 modern and the D&D core rulebooks doing would be changing the advanced classes so that they resemble the D&D classes rather than modern archetypes, and creating some more fantasy based magic items.
Good Luck!
Samnite, self-proclaimed master of quick campaign fixes that he'll never use due to his annoying gaming group.
jgbrowning
Hero
well
IMHO, the best way to deal with this question is to first remove ALL magic from the world.
then build up. design a system that works under *no magic* assumption and add layers.
1st layer-- "natural magic" healing herbs, complex rituals.. etc.. comparable to what our RL world shamans etc.. have been doing for years.
2nd layer-- "minor magic" think cantrip/orisions here.
3rd layer-- bah!... i'll save more till i write it myself...
joe b.
IMHO, the best way to deal with this question is to first remove ALL magic from the world.
then build up. design a system that works under *no magic* assumption and add layers.
1st layer-- "natural magic" healing herbs, complex rituals.. etc.. comparable to what our RL world shamans etc.. have been doing for years.
2nd layer-- "minor magic" think cantrip/orisions here.
3rd layer-- bah!... i'll save more till i write it myself...
joe b.
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