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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Urriak Uruk" data-source="post: 8085219" data-attributes="member: 7015558">[ATTACH=full]126025[/ATTACH]So I saw that one of the many <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/greyhawk-and-low-magic-why-low-magic-is-in-the-eyes-of-beholder.674479/page-10#post-8082052" target="_blank">Greyhawk threads is debating low magic</a>, and I thought to myself; "Is Greyhawk really low magic? What even is a low magic setting?"And once I did some research, I realized something... there isn't really a definition for what this even means. It isn't actually a term used often in genre definitions, so doesn't have clear parameters or explanations.No, what is used, and what people are actually referring to when they say "Low Magic," is "Low Fantasy."Low Fantasy (and its opposite, High Fantasy) does have clear definitions, although it technically has two.The first is relatively simple; Low Fantasy is a subgenre of fantasy fiction where magical events intrude on an otherwise normal world.Most Low Fantasy is set in our own world; the primary example is something like the world of Muggles in Harry Potter, specifically everything Harry encounters before moving into the "Wizarding World." Everything in his life is normal, defined by the rules of science and math we are all taught. But suddenly, Harry has a snake talking to him, owls bombarding his house with letters, and a giant appears to take him off to a magic school. The otherwise normal world has quite suddenly been intruded by several magical events.Now, this setting doesn't apply much to D&D; after all, most folks don't set their games on Earth, in any time period. Now you could; the best examples include setting your game in Arthurian England, or Charlemagne's France, where the normal world is suddenly being interfered by a rampaging dragon, or meddlesome fey spirits. But lets move even further away from such examples, to established settings that are completely divorced from our own, but still meet the metric for Low Fantasy.The most famous example would likely be Westeros of Game of Thrones, specifically during the events of book one and season 1. Although a completely different world than Earth, there is very little changed from that of Medieval Europe; there is no magic, the gods do not grant powers (and perhaps do not exist), and monsters are nearly unheard of, and mostly disbelieved. Dragons are dead, and some believe never lived at all.But the normal world of Westeros is interrupted, first by a dire wolf leaving her pups to the Starks (itself not much of an intrusion) but later by the more sinister undead of the far north, commanded by the mysterious White Walkers. By the end of the book, we have a shamanic sorceress attempting black magic, and of course the hatching of the first dragons in hundreds of years.The world of Westeros is intruded upon by magic, even though by the end of the series largely reverts to the non-magical status quo before such events.To use another example, the world of Berserk (a manga and anime) is set in an original but normal world. In the Golden Age, the Kingdom of Midland is engaged in a Hundred-Year War against the Tudor Empire (you can likely see the inspirations). But such a war is fought by normal means; knights and spears and shields clash in battle, but there is no supernatural elements. Until of course, our protagonist Guts faces against a man who is no man, but instead a demon. And that is just the prelude to our anti-hero's long war against the demonic forces, foes most people believe do not exist. They masquerade after all as normal humans, if powerful ones. Another manga, Demonslayer, has a similar premise of demons intruding upon the normal post-feudal world of Japan.[ATTACH=full]126027[/ATTACH]But this is the first definition of Low Fantasy. The second is more nuanced; An alternative definition, rests on the story and characters being more realistic and less mythic in scope.Under this definition, the world or setting can indeed be magical, but it is important that our characters themselves, and their means in the story, or not. Under this definition, Conan the Barbarian is Low Fantasy; the Hyborian Age is indeed magical, where wizards and sorcerers rule and oppose our heroes. But Conan himself is not; he is a normal man, if an incredible one in feats of strength of dexterity. But still a non-magical one. He means to best his magical foes like Thulsa Doom and Thoth-Amon through non-magical means, and his goals are simple; to become plunder and become rich.Now that we have these definitions out of the way, do we truly have any "Low Fantasy Settings?" The answer frankly seems to be "no." Neither Greyhawk or even Birthright truly fit the same level of groundedness of Westeres or Midland. Wizards exist and are well known; orcs and goblins roam the lands, and even form their own kingdoms and empires. Although one could set a game to be within one of the most "normal" kingdoms like Keoland, the peasants are well aware of the presence of magic and do their best to guard against the very real threats of gnolls and sahuagin. These are not intrusions on the normal world; they are indeed part of the status-quo.The second definition is also a weak one for a D&D game, unless the party purposefully agrees to it beforehand. To make a Conan-like party, you need one that has no wizards, clerics, or other spellcasters. You would be limited to only some of the subclasses of fighter, ranger, barbarian and rogue. A rare D&D party in all honestly, though a possible one.Therefore, a Low Magic setting is one that is possible to play in D&D, and I'd argue even fun. But to truly fit in the framework of Low Fantasy or Low Magic, you would need to look elsewhere from one of the published D&D settings, and instead forge your own world or set it in a historical time period. It definitely is doable, and many have done this. But Greyhawk and Birthright are at best Mid-Magic settings, not truly low ones.[ATTACH=full]126024[/ATTACH]</blockquote>

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