Lycanthropy and Warshaper?

[Theroc]

Does a Lycanthrope qualify for the Warshaper prestige class? I don't have my hands on Complete Warrior atm, but I am looking at an entry Crystalkeep has on it, which lists the prerequisites as:
Base Attack Bonus: +4.
Must be able to change shape
in one of the following ways:
1. Shape-change as a
Supernatural ability;
2. Shapechanger subtype;
3. Polymorph as a Spelllike
ability;
4. Able to cast Polymorph;
5. Wild Shape or similar
class feature.
An ‘Alternate Form’ (as
possessed by quasits, etc.) is
not sufficient.
Min Lvl: Drd6, Sor8, Wiz8.

My question is, does a Lycanthrope's shapeshifting fall under the "Alternate form as possessed by quasits, etc..."?

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

I think it was specifically called out as not being elligible (being a lycanthrope). That being said, the entry requirement is IMnotsoHO utter rubish. Note that later errata made a druid's wildshape based on alternate form, even though wildshape is clearly allowed as an entry path and alternate form is not.

My guess is that the designers recognized how utterly broken Warshaper was compared to nearly any other non-casting class, and decided it was only balanced if taking it meant losing caster levels or being a creature with a large ECL. I would either allow lycanthrope warshapers, or ban the class altogether, personally. I guess it's sort of balanced with Tome of Battle classes, so maybe if you allow that book it wouldn't be that overpowered in your campaign.

 

[irdeggman]

Does a Lycanthrope qualify for the Warshaper prestige class? I don't have my hands on Complete Warrior atm, but I am looking at an entry Crystalkeep has on it, which lists the prerequisites as:
Base Attack Bonus: +4.
Must be able to change shape
in one of the following ways:
1. Shape-change as a
Supernatural ability;
2. Shapechanger subtype;
3. Polymorph as a Spelllike
ability;
4. Able to cast Polymorph;
5. Wild Shape or similar
class feature.
An ‘Alternate Form’ (as
possessed by quasits, etc.) is
not sufficient.
Min Lvl: Drd6, Sor8, Wiz8.

My question is, does a Lycanthrope's shapeshifting fall under the "Alternate form as possessed by quasits, etc..."?

Don't need to look very far - they gain the shapechanger subtype - so yes based on what you've posted.

CREATING A LYCANTHROPE
“Lycanthrope” is a template that can be added to any humanoid or giant (referred to hereafter as the base creature). The lycanthrope template can be inherited (for natural lycanthropes) or acquired (for afflicted lycanthropes). Becoming a lycanthrope is very much like multiclassing as an animal and gaining the appropriate Hit Dice.

Size and Type: The base creature’s type does not change, but the creature gains the shapechanger subtype. The lycanthrope takes on the characteristics of some type of carnivorous or omnivorous creature of the animal type (referred to hereafter as the base animal).

 

[Theroc]

I wasn't sure if the alternate forms would permit the benefits to function, though I suppose RAW they could qualify, whether or not they'd gain the benefits is questionable... since Alternate form doesn't qualify, but shapechanger does, but the changing shape is alternating form...

What a convoluted mess, lol.

 

[irdeggman]

I wasn't sure if the alternate forms would permit the benefits to function, though I suppose RAW they could qualify, whether or not they'd gain the benefits is questionable... since Alternate form doesn't qualify, but shapechanger does, but the changing shape is alternating form...

What a convoluted mess, lol.

For the case you are asking about it is really simple.

It says able to change shape (it does not say "shape change" nor does it say "alternate form" as a prerequisite), it also specifically lists having the "shapechanger subtype" as one of the means of meeting this prequisite.

All lycanthrope gain the shapechanger subtype by adding the lycanthrope template. So they qualify as long as the other prequisites are met.

You are trying to read too much into this one.

 

[Zkittlez]

Actually, sitting with CWar in front of me - it states:

Special: Must be able to change shape in one of the following
fi ve ways:
• Change shape supernatural ability (aranea, hound archon,
barghest, doppelganger, rakshasa, slaad).
• Shapechanger subtype (lycanthropes, phasm).
• Polymorph as a spell-like ability (astral deva, planetar, solar,
couatl, marilith, bronze dragon, gold dragon, silver dragon,
efreeti, leonal guardinal, night hag, ogre mage, pixie).
• Able to cast the polymorph spell.
• Wild shape or similar class feature (bear warrior*, druid).
The alternate form ability (possessed by quasits, vampires,
and others) is insuffi cient to become a warshaper.
*Prestige class from this book.

;D

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Alright, so I was mistaken on the lycanthropes, thought it called it out as an exception, but it actually called it out as an example of what can enter. Point remains on the alternate form silliness.
Druid :: d20srd.org

"At 5th level, a druid gains the ability to turn herself into any Small or Medium animal and back again once per day. Her options for new forms include all creatures with the animal type. This ability functions like the alternate form special ability, except as noted here."

 

[Herzog]

The druid Wild Shape class ability functions like the Alternate Form ability, but it is not the Alternate Form ability.

Having an Alternate Form (using the Alternate Form ability) is not enough to get into the prestige class.
Having the Alterate Form ability does not disqualify you from the PrC. A quasit wih at least 5 druid levels would qualify, just as a lycanthrope does.
(the quasit with 5 druid levels because of the Wild Shape class ability, the lycanthrope because of the shapechanger subtype)

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

But why isn't alternate form good enough? It tends to allow at least as many forms as lycanthrope does. There are actual physical changes. And Wildshape isn't exactly alternate form, it's alternate form with some changes. It's still pretty close. I'd just like an idea of how this line was drawn, a justification for it.

 

[Herzog]

Why is having a class ability that gives you a dodge bonus not good enough to get you into a PrC that requires the Dodge Feat?

Why does one PrC require you to have a caster lvl of 5 (allowing you to qualify with Practiced Spellcaster) , while another requires you to cast 3rd lvl spells (requiring you to be at least a 5th lvl caster, or higher, depending on your class)

Because that's how the requirements are constructed.

Note, however, that the DMG tells us that the PrC's provided (in the DMG...) are examples, and that the best PrC's you can have in your game are the ones you create yourself!

In other words, there's nothing keeping you from altering the PrC to your liking before incorporating it into your game. On the contrary.