M&M: Bad First Session/All Or None

[Insight]

This is getting a tad off topic but Evasion does not normally let someone make two Reflex saves against the same effect. In other words, you get a Reflex save to halve the initial area effect, but then you have to make a regular save of whatever type is designated for the initial effect. I guess the only exceptions to this would be powers that already have a Reflex save, such as dazzle and snare.

 

[takyris]

If a character in a mecha-suit tried the "Disabled" thing in my game, he'd most definitely find out that it was worth the 10 points.

"Gosh, rolled a natural 1 on that save, did you? Looks like you just shorted out the motors on your suit. Nothing permanent, but you've just turned on the ol' Device Flaw until you can get back to base or a repair center. You're now wearing a very very heavy suit of armor -- the protection stays, but that's it. Treat it as 70 pounds of encumbrance. Oh, and you have that paraplegic thing, right?"

I mean, look at the short-lived show "Mantis" (a disabled guy in a suit, played by... shoot... was it Carl Lumbly, or am I just putting his face on it?). They played fair with that -- he'd get hit by an electrical surge or an energy-drain attack, and his suit would go dead, on a pretty regular basis. It's not like it happened every session, but it happened often enough that anyone playing that character wouldn't be saying "Hah, sucka, I got free points!"

On a completely unrelated note... my time with M&M was so good that I'm trying to convince my players that M&M would be a better engine for the swashbuckling fantasy game we're just starting up (currently using d20 Modern with WP/VP and armor as DR for WP hits only). Even in the (initially) low-magic world, a lot of powers can be modeled as training in a cinematically high-power world. For example:

Super-Speed: Take off the Sprinting and "do normal tasks obscenely fast" powers (brings it down to 5pp), and you've got D&D monk-like movement and bonuses on your reflex save, defense, and initiative. That's good quality cinematism.

Super-Strength: Take off the super-sized lifting power stuff, and you've got bonuses on damage and strength checks that completely make sense for at least a few ranks (I wouldn't let any human take more than +1 or +2 without magical equipment or spells, though -- unless said human was strong but clumsy, so I could give him a low Normal strength and a few ranks in Super-Strength).

And, for the more complex tricks:

Cinematic Whip: Weapon (Melee)
Snare +5 (1 pp for Device) = 5
Extra: Swinging (at +3): 3

Total Points: 8

Power Stunt: Blinding Snap (+2 pp)
Damage (flawed to +3) = 3
Extra: Dazzle (at +5) = 5

Power Stunt: Tripping Attack (+2 pp)
Damage (flawed to +3) = 3
Extra: Trip (Reflex save or fall prone) +5 = 5

Device Feat: Improved Reach (15 feet) = 2

So, a whip that lets you do a little damage (Damage +3, not a ton, but something), Trip people, Blind people, or Snare people, and you can also swing 15 feet as a move action (which is great for clearing obstacles or breaking falls), and it costs a total of 14 points. Improved Reach normally only gets you 10 foot reach, but given that the device is flavor-limited -- you can only snare one person at a time -- I think that's fair.

Or, how about a sword-breaker:

Sword-Breaker: Device
Disarming +4

Start with Energy Field (or the Quills extra from natural weapon), which stipulates that anyone attacking you takes damage. Change the save from Damage to Reflex, and change the effect from Damage to Disarming. This only functions once per round, and it only functions against melee attacks you see coming in. So somebody with a normal Sword-Breaker has Disarming +4, which means that once per round, upon being attacked, they force their attacker to make a Reflex save, DC 14, or have their melee weapon disarmed (if they're being attacked with a melee weapon). You'd have to common-sense weapon-sizes (Large gets +4 bonus, Small gets -4 penalty), but that could be fun.

On a character-power basis, I'm allowing things like Clinging or Leaping -- which, in a swashbuckling game, means "Grabbing the curtains and hanging onto them while running up the wall at decent speed" or "Kicking off the wall, luckily catching a niche in the wall, and vaulting to the balcony" up to about 4 ranks or so.

Deflection is an obvious one, and heck, I'd allow a few ranks in Force Field -- only I'd change it to "Defensive Dueling Prowess", which helps unarmored combatants lessen incoming strikes through the use of minor deflections and proper body conditioning. Maybe up to 3 or 4 ranks -- enough so that somebody who really wanted it could get good, but armor is still viable.

It's all about the flavor. Heck, if my guys asked nicely enough, I'd allow a spring-extensible pair of gliding wings (you know, a musketeer-era hang-glinder) as a gliding-only flight deal that had limited uses per day or required a Hero Point to activate.

Beyond that stuff, M&M converts beautifully to musketeer-style swashbuckling. All-Out Attack all by itself is, like, made for Musketeering -- "Though your guards strike me down, I shall make my mark upon you, Baron Riavar!"

Ahem.

 

[Insight]

Adding on to the last post, you can definitely use the M&M base system in other genres. It is far better suited to high fantasy and sci fi than is d20. I successfully ran a Star Wars game using the M&M rule set, and am working on a fantasy version for a possible Superlink product right now.

 

[The Grackle]

So M&M got the kind of reception that's usually reserved for the boyfriends of women with teenaged children.

Well MnM probably isn't as good for a pulp-supers game anyway. I haven't tested it out (or checked out the Nocturnals), but it seems to get sketchy at low PLs. You have to do some adjusting w/power caps and stacking weapons and non-super stats become way more important, etc...

So if you have a good game going w/some other system, keep it running.

The important thing is you didn't waste your money. It's a good game and eventually you'll get around to using it .

 

[drnuncheon]

... or they're using feats and super-attributes to bump up their skill checks, putting a bare minimum of points into the skills themselves. That gives them decently high skill checks while wasting as few points as possible on the skills themselves./QUOTE]

Yeah, but I don't see that as a problem.

In my games, I've actually started introducing a type of power called 'Super-X', where X is a profession or tight field - like Super-Cop or Super-Stealth. It's based off of the Super-Senses idea, and gives a bonus to a small set of related skills regardless of what stat they are based off of.

For instance, the guy with Super-Cop gets bonuses on Knowledge: Local, Knowledge: Criminals, Profession: Cop, and another thing that escapes me at the moment.

J

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

The important thing is you didn't waste your money. It's a good game and eventually you'll get around to using it .

Yea. I just felt the "POW!" "BLAMMO!" nature of M&M didn't suit itself to what we had in mind. Even Nocturnals was way too "superhero", but, at the same time, we didn't want a pure 30's pulp game.

A few people want me to run an M&M game at the local university game club. I'm seldom involved with the group, as I have more than enough games to run on my own, but apparently we've had a glut of freshmen looking for games, so all the current GMs are filled to capacity, and then some.

Only problem is, I can't really think of anything generic enough to make a revolving game. Which, honestly, is why I don't run at the game club, usually. So many people coming and going. Might pick up Freedom City or some canned information like that. Would rather run Nocturnals, but I think it's a little TOO similar (in themes, anyway) to my Sunday game.

--fje

 

[The Grackle]

Only problem is, I can't really think of anything generic enough to make a revolving game. Which, honestly, is why I don't run at the game club, usually. So many people coming and going. Might pick up Freedom City or some canned information like that. Would rather run Nocturnals, but I think it's a little TOO similar (in themes, anyway) to my Sunday game.

You could run a Marvel or DC universe game? Everybody's already familiar with their favorite characters. I think that all the Freedom City and Crooks characters are basically famous supers that have been renamed and given differrent artwork, and you can find tons of conversions over at the Atomic Think Tank.

The problem is, how are you going to have a group w/ three different Wolverines in it? Oh, yeah- The fusion of multiple timelines! You got a Logan, a Weapon-X, A Patch...

 

[Emiricol]

I've never known a DM who didn't tweak the D&D rules to his liking, at least a little. I wonder why the resistance to tweaking M&M?

Anyway, if you want a non-"Pow/Blammo" experience, try PL7 and have guidelines for PC creation. I've done it; it works just fine. I did a PL3 and a PL5 campaign too, with fewer modifications than in typical D&D campaigns. No real issues, though I prefer PL7 to 3 or 5.

Maybe you're just convinced it sucks, in which case it doesn't matter how good all those other people find the game. As always - play what you like.


EDIT - Oh, and for a revolving door style group, maybe try Freedom City and have Freedom Hall altered to also be a place where other heroes can have a membership that lets them meet up with other membership holders to deal with things that the Freedom League itself isn't going to handle.

OR - have the Freedom League be kidnapped/killed/missing as part of the background, and so the new Freedom League is more like a rough association of heroes in good standing than a tight team.

 

[ledded]

If a character in a mecha-suit tried the "Disabled" thing in my game, he'd most definitely find out that it was worth the 10 points.

Oh yes, the sign of a good RBDM. If you take something or use a plot device for your character that has any appreciable game effect, be prepared to have it bite you quite hard one day. Our regular GM, OldDrewId, is a master of this and will sometimes spend months getting it just right for your character. Not to say you should do things like exploit the fact that a PC states they have a girlfriend to run a long string of kidnapped-girlfriend scenarios (bleh), but if the PC has taken a disadvantage or keys some ability to a specific object or idea, the good GM should test that out every now and then, but not so often that it becomes irritating.

Moderation is the key. A guy in our group once had a GM that would always set up his D&D dungeons/bad guys so that they were either immune or completely prepared for all of the specific abilities of the group, and it was so frustrating that he eventually left.

<snip>

And, for the more complex tricks:

Cinematic Whip: Weapon (Melee)
Snare +5 (1 pp for Device) = 5
Extra: Swinging (at +3): 3

<snip>

So, a whip that lets you do a little damage (Damage +3, not a ton, but something), Trip people, Blind people, or Snare people, and you can also swing 15 feet as a move action (which is great for clearing obstacles or breaking falls), and it costs a total of 14 points. Improved Reach normally only gets you 10 foot reach, but given that the device is flavor-limited -- you can only snare one person at a time -- I think that's fair.

Or, how about a sword-breaker:

Sword-Breaker: Device
Disarming +4

Start with Energy Field (or the Quills extra from natural weapon), which stipulates that anyone attacking you takes damage. Change the save from Damage to Reflex, and change the effect from Damage to Disarming. This only functions once per round, and it only functions against melee attacks you see coming in. So somebody with a normal Sword-Breaker has Disarming +4, which means that once per round, upon being attacked, they force their attacker to make a Reflex save, DC 14, or have their melee weapon disarmed (if they're being attacked with a melee weapon). You'd have to common-sense weapon-sizes (Large gets +4 bonus, Small gets -4 penalty), but that could be fun.

<snip>.

Okay, now I *am* intrigued by M&M used in this way, because I like the way that looks/works for a fun swashbuckling game. If you have any more nice tidbits like that, feel free to share 'em with us

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

If/When I play M&M on a regular basis, I'm going to use BnV's system of disadvantages ... I.E., disads net you nothing if they don't come into play, and they never pay off Up Front.

It translates pretty easily over to M&M ... a character with a Disad gets 1-2 more PP for an adventure in which his disad played a part and he overcame it or a character gets a Hero Point when his Disad comes into play. Something like that.

--fje