M&M: How does a villain get a word in edge-wise?

[Asmor]

So I ran my first real game of M&M (not counting my first one 2 weeks prior where I realized I didn't fully understand the damage rules and couldn't pick them up quickly enough so I just hand-waved the climactic combat >_<), and the supervillain was a total pushover. He took a hit in the first round and got stunned, and then got a stun result at least once for the following 3-4 rounds while the rest of the team mopped up the mooks.

In fact, in the entire combat, he only got to act once. Granted, on that one action he one-shotted a PC, but all the same... It seems like the supervillain should be a bit more difficult to overcome.

Was I just doing something wrong? I don't see how an appropriate PL villain can avoid being stunned every round when he's facing at least 3 attacks.

 

[Piratecat]

What PL was the villain compared to the PCs?

 

[Asmor]

It was, in fact, the Savage Man-Beast from page 222 of the 2nd ed rulebook, so PL 10. The PCs are all PL 10... There's 5 of them I believe (is it bad I don't know off the top of my head how many people I'm running for? lol).

I'd be afraid to use anyone of a much higher PL, though, because as I said Mr. Man-Beast DID one-shot a PC in his single action that he did get to take.

The mooks surrounding him were mostly PL 3 soldiers, with like a 5 officer and a couple aliens that were somewhere between 3-6 (I forget).

 

[Jim Hague]

It was, in fact, the Savage Man-Beast from page 222 of the 2nd ed rulebook, so PL 10. The PCs are all PL 10... There's 5 of them I believe (is it bad I don't know off the top of my head how many people I'm running for? lol).

I'd be afraid to use anyone of a much higher PL, though, because as I said Mr. Man-Beast DID one-shot a PC in his single action that he did get to take.

The mooks surrounding him were mostly PL 3 soldiers, with like a 5 officer and a couple aliens that were somewhere between 3-6 (I forget).

Generally, setting a same PL villain against 5 same PL PCs will result in the villain getting punked, barring judicious use of GM Fiat and the subsequent Hero Point handout.

As a guideline, I increase the PL of a villain by 1 for every 2 PCs in a group, just to make them a credible threat. PL 3 soldiers are going to present no real fight for the heroes at all, barring Combined Fire and Teamwork, typically. If you want a really tough fight, go with this as a guideline:

1-2 Heroes - PL +1 (or plenty of tough Minions)
3-4 Heroes - PL +2 (plus Minions and a lieutenant)
5-6 Heroes - PL +4 (add deathtraps, more powerful Minions, and a PC-level lieutenant)
7+ Heroes - PL +5-6 (go nuts)

Also, you can enforce the monolouging rules for villains - comic book villains in four-color tend to ramble on, so let them yack-yack-yack away about how inevitable the heroes' defeat is, and how soon the world will be theirs...while the PCs plan and sabotage the villain's equipment, base, battle Minions, whatever. The second someone throws down, though, it's on. Don't hold back, and don't be afraid to use things like Power Attack and its ilk to, yeah, one shot a hero or two. It hard to actually kill a character in MnM with anything short of GM's Fiat, and defeated heroes get a Hero Point for going down, which can then be used for things like recovery checks...or escaping the inevitable deathtrap.

 

[arwink]

Let the villain monologue, tell the players they'll get a hero point for playing along with the genre.

The giving-away of Hero Points is, in my experience, the best way to keep a villain going - it not only makes them tougher to beat, but the eventual solutions tend to be a little more inventive because the players have the tools to literally go crazy and try something new. Keep the fight going and the hero points flowing until the combat feels like it's reached a good end-point.

 

[scholz]

Another tool in your M&M tool belt is GM Fiat. If the for whatever reason the heroes get a crit on the first hit, and you roll a 1, you can, totally by the rules without any hand waving at all, say "you hit him with a telling blow, smoke and fire erupt from your mighty blast (or the hills echo from the sound of your mighty hammer, or whatever), but when the smoke clears he stands, unharmed." Then you give the hero (or heroes) a Hero Point for their trouble.

This tool, give you considerable control over a fight. And it rewards the players for good ideas, and good rolls. So you needn't feel embarrassed about using it.


In the more hand waving department...
I will pull a "Doom Bot" on occasion.
Round 1: The heroes KO my mastervillain "Super Mandrill". So, I let them approach his unconscious body, only to find the smoking remains of an android. From a hidden speaker pipes in the Real SuperMandrill's voice. "You fools, while you've been playing with my Mandoids, I have been having a "chat" with Madam Mayor. It is a pity you can't join us, in fact, I doubt anyone will be able to join you again." Then they hear a ticking sound. "It's gonna self destruct!" Someone cries. Well you get the idea. That give you the chance to revamp the villain for the next fight.

 

[scholz]

Another thing to think about is keeping the players busy so that they can't all team up on one villain. I like to have some mooks, or have the villain launch an attack against a nearby school bus or building. That way, someone has to go save the kids, or put out the fire, and the big baddy can fight a hero one to one, or one to two.

 

[Asmor]

RE: Monologuing, I was using "get a word in edge-wise" metaphorically... In the case I mention, the villain was really just a powerful experiment, not a mastermind or any sort of plotter.

Thanks for the advice on PLs. Jim, how tough in your experience would that be for 5 heroes? Appropriate for one-per-session or should I save that for really big, hard things?

 

[arwink]

The other general advice for singular villains is to give them a Defense and Toughness (but not impervious toughness) save about three or four points higher than the average PL of the PC's they're facing. Since they'll face five or six times the number of attacks they'll make, you can afford to bulk up the defenses up a little higher than you would on a normal character. Villains, but their nature, shoudl be a tad better defensively than they are offensively.

 

[Qualidar]

Asmor, I found MDsnowman's fight descriptions on his thread in the Roll Call forum of the Atomic Think Tank (on Mutantsandmasterminds.com) to be a great primer in how things should go. Here's the link . He links to the the fights on the bottom of the first post.

Those gave me a better understanding of how much I should be using GM fiat, which I was underusing before that.

~Qualidar~