D&D 5E Mage Hand and Trap Avoidance

[Chaosmancer]

You're right, it's the point of the spell.

I'm saying it's a bad spell, because that's a bad point.

Arcane Eye gives one player the spotlight, and the gameplay looks like one of two ways:

Option 1:

• DM: Okay, you see a long hallway, with one door at the far end, a hole in the wall on the left, and a door on the right.
• Player with Arcane Eye: Okay, I go through the door on the right. Through the key hole.
• DM: You see x, y, z, plus a, b, c.
• Arcane Eye: Okay, now the hole on the left.
• DM: You see a trap. Also d, e, f.
• Arcane Eye: Nice. Now the door in the center.
• DM: [to the rest of the party: "yeah, go ahead and grab some snacks. We'll be here awhile"]. This looks like an armory. You see g, h, and i. Opposite this room are two more doors...

ad infinitum until the player gets bored, the party (or the DM) revolts, or the dungeon is fully mapped out.

Option 2:

• DM: not this again. Look, here's the map. Let's just say you know where everything is. Let's move on.

Fundamentally, it's a spell that encourages boring gameplay. The fact that boring gameplay 'is the point' doesn't make it any better.

Then find a way to make it interesting.

Have traps or charm effects that work on visuals, so seeing it through the spell triggers it. Have them see an emergency so the party has to rush into the dungeon while it is only partially explored. Make a dungeon that you hand them the map of the entire place revealed.... which means they know see that they have a puzzle because this place is nigh impregnable and they wouldn't stand a decent chance without that extra information.

And occasionally... let them just safely scout the location. A spellcaster using a spell as an "I win button" is the point of spells. Spells solve problems and provide information. That's their entire point.

 

[Edgar Ironpelt]

My feelings on traps have evolved over the years and ultimately they boil down to this: if the trap can be easily bypassed with mage hand, it is a bad trap. Full stop.

OK, why?

If the party is able to trigger the trap from a safe distance, by mage hand or any other means, then they have solved the trap. Good for them.

The only way I can see this as a bad or worthless or ineffective trap is if it's immediately obvious as to how it can be set off at a distance. If it's not obvious at first as to how it can be set off at a distance, then that's where the challenge and effectiveness of the trap lies, not in it being trivial to disarm once uncovered.

My own feeling on traps is to use them sparingly. There needs to be a reason why the trap-setting creature thought that setting up the trap was a good idea. And the trap-setter is not going to risk sacrificing himself to his own trap just for the chance of annoying some dratted PC in the future.

So traps in my games are mostly alarms, or insult attacks not expected to kill, or both, possibly with a side of marking the unauthorized character. More rarely, they'll be traps for animals, or capture-traps, or traps set up in a place the trap-setter never intends to return to.

And as for boring: Boring to the GM, or to the players? The two are not the same. I figure that as long as the players aren't bored by using mage hand to trigger traps, then the guy wearing the GM hat - me - has a duty to smile and take it.

Now when I GM and see the players joyously knocking down the opposition I've set up, whether traps or combat encounters, there's sometimes a little voice whispering in the back of my mind: "I'm annoyed and bored by this, so the players must be bored too. Really, they must be. Even though they appear to be having fun, they must actually want more challenge. So go ahead and give that to them. Do it! They'll thank you for it."

I do my best to ignore that voice, because I know it's the one on my left shoulder, with horns and a pitchfork.

 

[Reynard]

OK, why?

If the party is able to trigger the trap from a safe distance, by mage hand or any other means, then they have solved the trap. Good for them.

The only way I can see this as a bad or worthless or ineffective trap is if it's immediately obvious as to how it can be set off at a distance. If it's not obvious at first as to how it can be set off at a distance, then that's where the challenge and effectiveness of the trap lies, not in it being trivial to disarm once uncovered.

My own feeling on traps is to use them sparingly. There needs to be a reason why the trap-setting creature thought that setting up the trap was a good idea. And the trap-setter is not going to risk sacrificing himself to his own trap just for the chance of annoying some dratted PC in the future.

So traps in my games are mostly alarms, or insult attacks not expected to kill, or both, possibly with a side of marking the unauthorized character. More rarely, they'll be traps for animals, or capture-traps, or traps set up in a place the trap-setter never intends to return to.

And as for boring: Boring to the GM, or to the players? The two are not the same. I figure that as long as the players aren't bored by using mage hand to trigger traps, then the guy wearing the GM hat - me - has a duty to smile and take it.

Now when I GM and see the players joyously knocking down the opposition I've set up, whether traps or combat encounters, there's sometimes a little voice whispering in the back of my mind: "I'm annoyed and bored by this, so the players must be bored too. Really, they must be. Even though they appear to be having fun, they must actually want more challenge. So go ahead and give that to them. Do it! They'll thank you for it."

I do my best to ignore that voice, because I know it's the one on my left shoulder, with horns and a pitchfork.

I expanded on this elsewhere, but ultimately I do not think simple traps add enough value in play (fun, tension, whatever) to be worth the time sink. Overall, complex traps that are encounters in and of themselves are a better use of the trop IMO.

 

[CreamCloud0]

If the party is able to trigger the trap from a safe distance, by mage hand or any other means, then they have solved the trap. Good for them.

i think a trap that it is possible to be disabled without cost or at least a risk of cost has failed to serve it's purpose, if the players can safely disable it from a distance then great! but if they can do that with zero expenditure every time then it might as well not even be there as an obstacle in the first place.

 

[MarkB]

i think a trap that it is possible to be disabled without cost or at least a risk of cost has failed to serve it's purpose, if the players can safely disable it from a distance then great! but if they can do that with zero expenditure every time then it might as well not even be there as an obstacle in the first place.

Only if it's clearly visible. For many traps the purpose is to challenge the party's ability to find it in the first place, and then to figure out how to disable it. If those parts are challenging, then the actual act of disabling it doesn't need to carry any risk or cost.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Only if it's clearly visible. For many traps the purpose is to challenge the party's ability to find it in the first place, and then to figure out how to disable it. If those parts are challenging, then the actual act of disabling it doesn't need to carry any risk or cost.

i mean, if you have a genuine chance to not notice it and take damage i'd file that under 'a risk of cost'

 

[Bae'zel]

One leverage point you have as GM in 5e-adjacent games - though I use it very sparingly - is the 10 pound limit of mage hand.

A long thread, but this reply on page #1 stuck with me.

I'm guessing that many traps can only be triggered by sufficient force. 10 pounds may just not be enough to trigger a pressure plate meant for a humanoid's weight.

Regardless, the most insidious, clever dungeons have "decoy" traps anyway. A pressure plate that only triggers once a certain amount of weight is applied at once, or only after 3 passes, or there's an easy trap to find/trigger, but another one right around the corner that's worse.

Generally speaking, I don't mind it when a trap is discovered, through careful examination or cleverness, it is easy enough to trigger, with Mage Hand, a 10-foot pole or tossing a rock onto it. Makes the players feel clever and cool.

 

[MarkB]

i mean, if you have a genuine chance to not notice it and take damage i'd file that under 'a risk of cost'

If there's no chance of it going unnoticed I'm not sure it qualifies as a trap.

 

[Reynard]

If there's no chance of it going unnoticed I'm not sure it qualifies as a trap.

What does that make an obvious trap? If it is not a trap, what is it?

 

[SkidAce]