Mage hunter - please help with my concept

jaker2003

Explorer
Ok, I just hit upon the idea for a character that specializes in magic attack and defense and threw this together. I'm looking for honest feedback, no matter how disheartening.

I keep thinking I should give it some big ability at 10th level, but part of me says its probably overpowered as it is.

Current working version
 

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More likely to get feedback if posting the text, not just an attachment. Some of us are rather rightfully leery of attachments.
 

Here's a cut and paste for easy reference. Comments forthcoming...


Mage Hunter

Mage hunters are spellcasters that specialize in fighting arcane spellcasters.
Abilities: Charisma determines how powerful a spell a mage hunter can cast, how many spells he can cast per day, and how hard those spells are to resist. Charisma, Intelligence, and Wisdom are important to many of the mage hunter’s class skills.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: d6
Base Attack: Poor (as Wizard)
Saves: Poor Fortitude, Good Reflex and Will

Class Skills
An mage hunter’s class skills (and the key ability modifier for each) are Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Knowledge (arcana)(Int), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), and Use Magic Device (Cha).
Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier.

Code:
Level	Special				--------------Spells per Day--------------
					0th	1st	2nd	3rd	4th	5th	6th
1	Spell Grace			2	-	-	-	-	-	-
2	Detect Magic			3	0	-	-	-	-	-
3	Spell Sense +1			3	1	-	-	-	-	-
4	Arcane Strike +1		3	2	0	-	-	-	-
5					3	3	1	-	-	-	-
6	Spell Sense +2			3	3	2	-	-	-	-
7	Evasion				3	3	2	0	-	-	-
8	Arcane Strike +2		3	3	3	1	-	-	-
9	Spell Sense +3			3	3	3	2	-	-	-
10					3	3	3	2	0	-	-
11					3	3	3	3	1	-	-
12	Sp. Sense +4, Arc Strike +3	3	3	3	3	2	-	-
13					3	3	3	3	2	0	-
14	Improved Evasion		4	3	3	3	3	1	-
15	Spell Sense +5 			4	4	3	3	3	2	-
16	Arcane Strike +4		4	4	4	3	3	2	0
17					4	4	4	4	3	3	1
18	Spell Sense +6			4	4	4	4	4	3	2
19					4	4	4	4	4	4	3
20	Arcane Strike +5		4	4	4	4	4	4	4

Class Features

Weapon and Armor Proficiency:
The mage hunter is proficient with all simple weapons and all light martial weapons. Mage hunters are proficient with light armor.
A mage hunter can cast mage hunter spells while wearing light armor without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. However, like any other arcane spellcaster, a mage hunter wearing medium or heavy armor or using a shield incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the spell in question has a somatic component (most do). A multiclass mage hunter still incurs the normal arcane spell failure chance for arcane spells received from other classes.

Spells: A mage hunter casts arcane spells, which are drawn from ANY arcane spell list. He can cast any spell he knows without preparing it ahead of time. To learn or cast a spell, a mage hunter must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a mage hunter’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the mage hunter’s Charisma modifier.
Like other spellcasters, a mage hunter can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table: The Mage hunter. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Charisma score. When Table: Mage hunter Spells Known indicates that the mage hunter gets 0 spells per day of a given spell level, he gains only the bonus spells he would be entitled to based on his Charisma score for that spell level.
The mage hunter’s selection of spells is extremely limited. A mage hunter begins play knowing four 0-level spells of your choice. At most new mage hunter levels, he gains one or more new spells, as indicated on Table: Mage hunter Spells Known. (Unlike spells per day, the number of spells a mage hunter knows is not affected by his Charisma score; the numbers on Table: Mage Hunter Spells Known are fixed.)
Upon reaching 5th level, and at every third mage hunter level after that (8th, 11th, and so on), a mage hunter can choose to learn a new spell in place of one he already knows. In effect, the mage hunter “loses” the old spell in exchange for the new one. The new spell’s level must be the same as that of the spell being exchanged, and it must be at least two levels lower than the highest-level mage hunter spell the mage hunter can cast. A mage hunter may swap only a single spell at any given level, and must choose whether or not to swap the spell at the same time that he gains new spells known for the level.
As noted above, a mage hunter need not prepare his spells in advance. He can cast any spell he knows at any time, assuming he has not yet used up his allotment of spells per day for the spell’s level.

Code:
Table: Mage Hunter Spells Known
	————— Spells Known —————
Level	0	1st	2nd	3rd	4th	5th	6th
1st	4	—	—	—	—	—	—
2nd	5	2*	—	—	—	—	—
3rd	6	3	—	—	—	—	—
4th	6	3	2*	—	—	—	—
5th	6	4	3	—	—	—	—
6th	6	4	3	—	—	—	—
7th	6	4	4	2*	—	—	—
8th	6	4	4	3	—	—	—
9th	6	4	4	3	—	—	—
10th	6	4	4	4	2*	—	—
11th	6	4	4	4	3	—	—
12th	6	4	4	4	3	—	—
13th	6	4	4	4	4	2*	—
14th	6	4	4	4	4	3	—
15th	6	4	4	4	4	3	—
16th	6	5	4	4	4	4	2*
17th	6	5	5	4	4	4	3
18th	6	5	5	5	4	4	3
19th	6	5	5	5	5	4	4
20th	6	5	5	5	5	5	4
* Provided the mage hunter has a high enough Charisma score to have a bonus spell of this level.

Spell Grace (Su): At 1st level, a mage hunter gains a bonus equal to her Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws.

Detect Magic (Su): At 2nd level, a mage hunter generates a continuous detect magic effect.

Spell Sense (Ex): Starting at 3rd level, a mage hunter has an intuitive sense that alerts him to danger from spells and spell-like abilities, giving him a +1 Dodge bonus to AC against spells and spell-like abilities. These bonuses increase by +1 every three mage hunter levels thereafter.

Arcane Strike (Su): Starting at 4th level, a mage hunter can add a +1 enhancement bonus to any weapon (even an unarmed strike) he wields. Adding an enhancement to a weapon requires a standard action and a DC 10 Concentration check. The enhancement can be dismissed at will, but will not linger longer than the mage hunter’s grasp (so thrown weapons and ammunition do not benefit). The enhancement increases by +1 for every four levels after 4th (+2 at 8th, +3 at 12th, +4 at 16th, and +5 at 20th.

Evasion (Ex): A mage hunter of 7th level or higher can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If she makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, (such as a red dragon’s fiery breath or a fireball), she instead takes no damage. Evasion can only be used if a mage hunter wears light on no armor. A helpless mage hunter (such as one who is unconscious or paralyzed) does not gain the benefit of evasion.

Improved Evasion (Ex): At 14th level, the mage hunter’s evasion ability improves. While the mage hunter still takes no damage on a successful Reflex saving throw against attacks such as a dragon’s breath weapon or a fireball, henceforth she takes only half damage on a failed save. A helpless mage hunter (such as one who is unconscious or paralyzed) does not gain the benefit of improved evasion.
 
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jaker2003 said:
Ok, I just hit upon the idea for a character that specializes in magic attack and defense and threw this together.

Your vision and the class do not apear to match up, IMO!

Mage hunter to me implies someone who is not only good at resisting magic, but is also good at shutting down and harming spellcasters. Your class certainly has good defences, but needs a bit more oomph in the other categories.

Spell Grace (Su): At 1st level, a mage hunter gains a bonus equal to her Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws.
Cool, except that it should only work against spells, spell-like abilities, and possibly supernatural abilities. This would suit the theme and name much better.

Detect Magic (Su): At 2nd level, a mage hunter generates a continuous detect magic effect.
Add in the following lines:
The mage hunter must concentrate to gain further information with this ability. The mage hunter's caster level is equal to his class level. This ability can be dispelled, but the mage hunter may invoke it again as a free action.

Spell Sense (Ex): Starting at 3rd level, a mage hunter has an intuitive sense that alerts him to danger from spells and spell-like abilities, giving him a +1 Dodge bonus to AC against spells and spell-like abilities. These bonuses increase by +1 every three mage hunter levels thereafter.
Sounds cool.

Arcane Strike (Su): Starting at 4th level, a mage hunter can add a +1 enhancement bonus to any weapon (even an unarmed strike) he wields. Adding an enhancement to a weapon requires a standard action and a DC 10 Concentration check. The enhancement can be dismissed at will, but will not linger longer than the mage hunter’s grasp (so thrown weapons and ammunition do not benefit). The enhancement increases by +1 for every four levels after 4th (+2 at 8th, +3 at 12th, +4 at 16th, and +5 at 20th.
By all appearances this is not a physical combat class, so this ability seems somewhat incongrous.

Evasion (Ex), Improved Evasion (Ex)
Appropriate, I think. You might consider also adding in Mettle, but only against spells/spell-like abilities.

===
So, what would I add?

->Improved Counterspelling capability would be good.
->As I said above, spell and spell-like ability dependent Mettle. OR
->Gain spell immunity to a specific spell at certain class levels (follows Wizard spell level aquisition: a 0 and 1st-level spell at class level 1, a 2nd-level spell at 3rd class level, and so on).
->Improved ability to disrupt spellcasting through damage (level-dependent bonus on the Concentration DC). OR
->Your damaging spells gain bonus damage against spell-spell-like ability using creatures.
->Spell failure inducing aura (within your threatened area? 10' radius? 30' radius), improves with level. Can use for only a few rounds per day.
->Medium base attack
 

Personally the idea of an arcance spellcaster being a hunter of all arcance spellcasters is a bit.. ummm.. wonky

I would drop the spell casting, bump up to D8 HD and medium BAB.. then add in an abliities similar to:

Disruptive Presence:
Enemy spell casters attempting to cast defensively while within your threatened area suffer a penalty to thier Concentration check equal to your Mage Hunter levels

Change the Detect Magic ability into a per day use and allow the Mage Hunter to expend it to create a targeted {touch} dispell magic effect against a specific spell effect or to counterspell {caster level = mage hunter class level}

And I agree with Sound of Azure on almost all points.
 

i wouldn't make the detect magic continuos i'd make it like the palidins detect evil as the spell at will

and though i know it be some work it should really have a spell list all it's own it's a focused class things like dispel magic, spell turning, maybe arcane weapon as bless weapon but against casters rather then evil

also i would keep the name but make it so it hunts all casters

you might want to give it around ten level nondection continous or he might fall to scry and fry
 

I've made some changes, they're identified by the red text.
Mage Hunter

Mage hunters are spellcasters that specialize in fighting arcane spellcasters.
Abilities: Charisma determines how powerful a spell a mage hunter can cast, how many spells he can cast per day, and how hard those spells are to resist. Charisma, Intelligence, and Wisdom are important to many of the mage hunter’s class skills.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: d6
Base Attack: Medium (as Cleric)
Saves: Poor Fortitude, Good Reflex and Will

Class Skills
An mage hunter’s class skills (and the key ability modifier for each) are Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Knowledge (arcana)(Int), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), and Use Magic Device (Cha).
Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier.

Code:
Level	Special				--------------Spells per Day--------------
					0th	1st	2nd	3rd	4th	5th	6th
1	Spell Grace			2	-	-	-	-	-	-
2	Detect Magic			3	0	-	-	-	-	-
3	Spell Sense +1			3	1	-	-	-	-	-
4	Arcane Strike +1		3	2	0	-	-	-	-
5					3	3	1	-	-	-	-
6	Spell Sense +2			3	3	2	-	-	-	-
7	Evasion				3	3	2	0	-	-	-
8	Arcane Strike +2		3	3	3	1	-	-	-
9	Spell Sense +3			3	3	3	2	-	-	-
10					3	3	3	2	0	-	-
11					3	3	3	3	1	-	-
12	Sp. Sense +4, Arc Strike +3	3	3	3	3	2	-	-
13					3	3	3	3	2	0	-
14	Improved Evasion		4	3	3	3	3	1	-
15	Spell Sense +5 			4	4	3	3	3	2	-
16	Arcane Strike +4		4	4	4	3	3	2	0
17					4	4	4	4	3	3	1
18	Spell Sense +6			4	4	4	4	4	3	2
19					4	4	4	4	4	4	3
20	Arcane Strike +5		4	4	4	4	4	4	4

Class Features

Weapon and Armor Proficiency:
The mage hunter is proficient with all simple weapons and all light martial weapons. Mage hunters are proficient with light armor.
A mage hunter can cast mage hunter spells while wearing light armor without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. However, like any other arcane spellcaster, a mage hunter wearing medium or heavy armor or using a shield incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the spell in question has a somatic component (most do). A multiclass mage hunter still incurs the normal arcane spell failure chance for arcane spells received from other classes.

Spells: A mage hunter casts arcane spells, which are drawn from ANY arcane spell list. He can cast any spell he knows without preparing it ahead of time. To learn or cast a spell, a mage hunter must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a mage hunter’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the mage hunter’s Charisma modifier.
Like other spellcasters, a mage hunter can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table: The Mage hunter. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Charisma score. When Table: Mage hunter Spells Known indicates that the mage hunter gets 0 spells per day of a given spell level, he gains only the bonus spells he would be entitled to based on his Charisma score for that spell level.
The mage hunter’s selection of spells is extremely limited. A mage hunter begins play knowing four 0-level spells of your choice. At most new mage hunter levels, he gains one or more new spells, as indicated on Table: Mage hunter Spells Known. (Unlike spells per day, the number of spells a mage hunter knows is not affected by his Charisma score; the numbers on Table: Mage Hunter Spells Known are fixed.)
Upon reaching 5th level, and at every third mage hunter level after that (8th, 11th, and so on), a mage hunter can choose to learn a new spell in place of one he already knows. In effect, the mage hunter “loses” the old spell in exchange for the new one. The new spell’s level must be the same as that of the spell being exchanged, and it must be at least two levels lower than the highest-level mage hunter spell the mage hunter can cast. A mage hunter may swap only a single spell at any given level, and must choose whether or not to swap the spell at the same time that he gains new spells known for the level.
As noted above, a mage hunter need not prepare his spells in advance. He can cast any spell he knows at any time, assuming he has not yet used up his allotment of spells per day for the spell’s level.

Code:
Table: Mage Hunter Spells Known
	————— Spells Known —————
Level	0	1st	2nd	3rd	4th	5th	6th
1st	4	—	—	—	—	—	—
2nd	5	2*	—	—	—	—	—
3rd	6	3	—	—	—	—	—
4th	6	3	2*	—	—	—	—
5th	6	4	3	—	—	—	—
6th	6	4	3	—	—	—	—
7th	6	4	4	2*	—	—	—
8th	6	4	4	3	—	—	—
9th	6	4	4	3	—	—	—
10th	6	4	4	4	2*	—	—
11th	6	4	4	4	3	—	—
12th	6	4	4	4	3	—	—
13th	6	4	4	4	4	2*	—
14th	6	4	4	4	4	3	—
15th	6	4	4	4	4	3	—
16th	6	5	4	4	4	4	2*
17th	6	5	5	4	4	4	3
18th	6	5	5	5	4	4	3
19th	6	5	5	5	5	4	4
20th	6	5	5	5	5	5	4
* Provided the mage hunter has a high enough Charisma score to have a bonus spell of this level.

Spell Immunity (Su): A mage hunter’s most potent defense is his spell immunity. As a mage hunter progresses, he gains immunity to a single spell of each level. At 1st level, a mage hunter selects one 0th level and one 1st level spell that he would be immune to. At every odd level after that, he selects an additional spell to be immune to, until he has immunity to one spell of each level when he reaches level 17.

Spell Grace (Su): At 1st level, a mage hunter gains a bonus equal to her Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws. This bonus only applies to saves against magical affects. The mage hunter would not receive this bonus on a Reflex save to catch oneself during a fall, for example.

Bonus Feat (Ex): A 1st level, a mage hunter gains Improved Counterspell as a bonus feat.

Detect Magic (Su): At 2nd level, a mage hunter generates a continuous detect magic effect. The mage hunter must concentrate to gain further information with this ability. The mage hunter's caster level is equal to his class level. This ability can be dispelled, but the mage hunter may invoke it again as a free action.

Spell Sense (Ex): Starting at 3rd level, a mage hunter has an intuitive sense that alerts him to danger from spells and spell-like abilities, giving him a +1 Dodge bonus to AC against spells and spell-like abilities. These bonuses increase by +1 every three mage hunter levels thereafter.

Arcane Strike (Su): Starting at 4th level, a mage hunter can add a +1 enhancement bonus to any weapon (even an unarmed strike) he wields. Adding an enhancement to a weapon requires a standard action and a DC 10 Concentration check. The enhancement can be dismissed at will, but will not linger longer than the mage hunter’s grasp (so thrown weapons and ammunition do not benefit). When using an arcane strike against a target attempting to cast a spell, the DC for their Concentration check increases by 1d6 for every +1 enhancement bonus your arcane strike has. The enhancement increases by +1 for every four levels after 4th (+2 at 8th, +3 at 12th, +4 at 16th, and +5 at 20th).

Evasion (Ex): A mage hunter of 7th level or higher can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If she makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, (such as a red dragon’s fiery breath or a fireball), she instead takes no damage. Evasion can only be used if a mage hunter wears light on no armor. A helpless mage hunter (such as one who is unconscious or paralyzed) does not gain the benefit of evasion.

Nondetection (Su): Starting at 10th level, the mage hunter and all his gear is warded by a nondetection effect. The mage hunter's caster level is equal to his class level. This ability can be dispelled, but the mage hunter may invoke it again as a free action. The DC to overcome the nondetection with a divination effect is 15 + mage hunter level.

Improved Evasion (Ex): At 14th level, the mage hunter’s evasion ability improves. While the mage hunter still takes no damage on a successful Reflex saving throw against attacks such as a dragon’s breath weapon or a fireball, henceforth she takes only half damage on a failed save. A helpless mage hunter (such as one who is unconscious or paralyzed) does not gain the benefit of improved evasion.

Okay, I'm looking forward to feedback on the changes I've made.

Maldor said:
and though i know it be some work it should really have a spell list all it's own it's a focused class things like dispel magic, spell turning, maybe arcane weapon as bless weapon but against casters rather then evil
Do you have more suggestions for their spell list?
 

I'm with SoA on this - the idea of a Mage Hunter being a spellcaster is dubious.

Some of the ideas are good but at first glance it looks too much like an "I want all these features in a class, what should I call it?" class.

My thoughts:
Remove the spellcasting, give it d8 for hit points, 4 skill points per level, proficiency in all martial weapons and all armour/shields and it will be more like a hunter of magic users to me.

Also, removing the Charisma link for spells it might be better to add INT bonus to magic saves to reflect the deep study of spells and their effects. This would also help with the skill the character would need to effectively combat spellchuckers.

Thirdly (at least), I would add in an innate 'anti-magic field', perhaps giving a spell failure chance increasing with level. This would make its Arcane Strike a valuable power and make UMD skill useless (so I'd remove it).
 

these i think fit the theme
Guidance, resistance,read magic,
magic weapon protection from chaos/evil/good/law,remove fear,shield,dispel ward
find traps,glitterdust,silence,remove paralysis,touch of idiocy,see invisibilty
dispel magic,remove curse,locate creature,protection from energy,acance sight
freedom of movement,spell immunity,dimensional anchor,lesser globe of invulnerability
break enchantment,spell resistance,greater dispel magic
feeblemind,anti magic field,spell turning,analyze Dweomer

things that help repair and protect from common magis attack and somethings to help lock down the casters magic with just a touch of divation to help you find them

P.S. this class would be good as something that a controling mage guild(or church/king) uses to take out those who don't submit to their rules
the mage killers should be a little fearful for their safty to after all killing you is only the begining of what evil pissed off mage can do to you
 

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