Mage Slayer revised.

[Scion]

A noncaster could take spellcraft crossclassed and be able to do fine at it.

Still though, it isnt perfect, but it is 'way' more balanced than the original version and the posted version both.

 

[Thanee]

That is what this feat is supposed to be, forcing tactical choices with one characters benefit potentially overriding anothers. That is exactly what the original feat 'fails' to do, and it fails even more miserably in doing something that feats should not be able to do, it takes away someone elses ability with them having no way of countering it or having the normal check get around it somehow.

Not sure if you have read the whole thread, but that's what the person you just replied to is doing exactly (read his latest feat proposal), following my recommendation further up there.

It's really unnecessary to argue, that granting an AoO against defensive casting is better than taking away the option to cast defensively, if everyone agrees with that, anyways.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Scion]

no, not quite, there is an important difference.

still though, whether one is better than the other in power or not is unimportant, I am talking about better balance.

The feats that give penalties or remove the ability entirely are forcing a square peg into a round hole, it just isnt going to help with the problem that they are worrying about.


The penalty will almost always be either to large or to small, hence going about the problem in a different way.

 

[Thanee]

That's a problem with the fixed DC of Concentration, yes.

The penalty makes sense, though, because it represents distracting the spellcaster in a meaningful way, which should make it harder to concentrate on the spell.

But (as explained above, don't want to repeat everything) the ability to concentrate should definitely not be removed completely, that's just stupid. But well, it's not like you don't agree with that part.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Scion]

I dont think it is a problem with concentration, it is designed to get easier as the character gets better and to, someday, be automatic.

The penalty will have a problem with this scaling issue because just about no matter how you go about chooseing the number it will be wrong somehow ;/

The penalty is much better than taking it away entirely, and in my mind having a check to see if you can instead 'gain' the aoo is by far the best.

I always prefer feats and skills to be based off of giving the character more abilities instead of taking abilities away from others.

Of course that can come down to semantics on occasion.. such as a character who spends a feat to get a +5 to his checks for spotting disguises vs a character who gives a -5 penalty to all disguise checks of people near him (or something similar). The first I find acceptable but not the second. The overall balance is the same, but one is something feats should do whereas the second is not. The second is much more into the supernatural or spell territory.


Now if we labled the feat as (su) and gave it some sort of prereq to make that make sense it'd be all right in play wise

 

[Thanee]

The penalty is much better than taking it away entirely, and in my mind having a check to see if you can instead 'gain' the aoo is by far the best.

It's not like I'm opposed to this more general idea...

But the way you wrote it up, the feat is useless, because a Spellcraft check (with cross-class ranks, most likely) against maxed-out (highly likely) Concentration (and better Con than Int as well, again, most likely) isn't going to do a whole lot.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Scion]

At level 20 max ranks of 23, say +5 from con = +28.

Cross classed max rank of 11, say +5 from int (hey, he wants to be able to use spellcraft) and +4 from the feat = +20.

So yeah, not a great chance to overcome it, but possible.

So maybe it should be +5 and an extra +5 for everytime they buy it again. I was just trying to be weary of gishs who take it.

Useing BAB isnt a great way to go, because it isnt as good for some fighter types as others (such as monks, who likely should be better mage killers).

Useing skill ranks in spell focus isnt great because of the cross class rule, but at least it is slightly better than BAB. Most people are on the same playing field and it takes resources.

Like I said, not great, but definately better than the other way to go about it.


Just need something which takes resources to get but other types can pick it up.


Maybe the feat should allow the aoo with the check and makes spellcraft a class skill. That would solve most of the problems right there