Magic from contemporary fiction

[Janaxstrus]

If I had my choices:

Malazan - Different warrens of magic. Magic in the Malazan Book of the Fallen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Black Company - only difference between a top end wizard and a hedge wizard is the amount of time it takes them to do something. Any minor wizard, given enough time can replicate anything a demi-god can do. One example is a main character making an artifact, even though he was only about a 5th level wizard really. It just took him years and years of laying spells on the item.

 

[Minigiant]

I really think that Harry Potter needs excluding from any attempts to modernise fictional magic. It doesn't in any way work within its own world, mostly due to being inexhaustible and capable of anything required by plot. It's fun, but it's not consistent, and you can't build a complete world with it.

The actual Potter style magic might be too inconsistent due to plot spells and plot strength.

But you do something similar with at-will magic and some sort of mechanic for limitations DCs, caster level, or base spell strength.

 

[B.T.]

I'm currently reading Codex Alera in which every character (save for the protagonist, Tavi

Spoiler

LOL J/K IN LATER BOOKS

) has bonds with "furies," which are spirits that humans bond with and can command. Unfortunately, Jim Butcher's writing is lackluster in some regards, and the "mechanics" of magic in the world are not well-explained. However, the concept is neat.

 

[fuindordm]

[MENTION=882]Chris_Nightwing[/MENTION]: As I already mentioned in another thread, I think the sorcerer does a good job modeling Harry Potter magic. However, to play well with others, they do need to run out of magic over the course of a day. But the basic concept "cast any spell you know, as often as you want" is there, and it's easy enough to make the magic dependent on a wand, except for a few spells that you have mastered exceptionally well. There are already feats to learn extra spells, rules for spell research, rules for crafting items, etc. I think players can accept that in the game, they learn spells in order of increasing effect and not at the demands of the plot.

[MENTION=18333]Neechen[/MENTION]: Elric-style magic is a challenge, but not insurmountable. Step 1: start with the sorcerer. Step 2: require each sorcerer to have an elemental or alignment pact (replaces the bloodline, if you're playing with PF; add minor at-will abilities to suit taste). Step 3: add code of conduct -- must make regular sacrifices/tributes to sustain pact, taboos optional. If you want to get more restrictive, start the 1st-level sorcerer with a very tightly focused spell list (all fire spells for a fire pact, plus a small number of 'universal' spells such as detect magic and identify). At regular intervals (every X levels), allow them to enter into a new pact and gain access to a new set of spells that they can learn.

That's the version that plays well with others, and integrates easily into core D&D. You could make it closer to the books by tracking sacrifices and granting magic power that runs out, but I don't think that should replace the spells/day mechanic, just exist as an extra limitation. E.g., for the fire pact, if you dedicate an enemy to the elemental lord and then slay it with fire magic, you get to cast 2 spell levels per HD. Not sure the bookkeeping is worth it, though.

[MENTION=3201]Janaxstrus[/MENTION]: I've only read a couple of the black company books, but that's an interesting point. Of course, some spells aren't worth casting if they take too long to do so... but are you saying even a low-level wizard could camp out on a secluded hill, work for a few months on a spell, then throw a meteor swarm down on the city below? It has interesting implications for the game world, but isn't necessarily a problem. Take the wizard, allow them to learn any spell of any level subject to the normal rules. The normal spells per day chart represents the spells they are experienced enough to prepare and cast quickly. Any other spells in their book have to be cast out of combat, as rituals. Then create a chart showing the casting times by CL and by spell level. You could also create an intermediate range where spells take a full round to cast. E.g. A fifth level wizard could cast 1st level spells normally, but 2nd and 3rd level spells are still full round actions.

Obviously this makes the wizard a lot more powerful, so you should take something away from the class to make up for it, like halving the number of spells per day that they can prepare. The DM will have to use the game world to restrict spell learning, and make the PCs aware that there are very powerful wizards out there just waiting to stamp out upstarts who get too big for their britches.

I'm sure it's not a perfect fit, but it still fits under the D&D umbrella reasonably well.

I know I didn't respond to everyone, but that's all I have time for now.

 

[Yora]

I very much enjoy biotics from Mass Effects. There is possibly some detailed description burried deep in the background information, but the games themselves don't really go into detail about the physics behind it.

It's basically a number of psychic powers, which are all very basic and do not allow for fine manipulation. Basic things like emanating a protective field that deflects attacks, levitation, telekinetic thrusts, stasis, or disrupting the targets atomic structure. Since it's a science fiction world, the powers all are related to manipulating gravity, time, magnetism, and velocity. And since it's a fast paced video-game, there are only about 10 powers in all.
However, I very much enjoy the combination of being able to pretty much use the powers repetedly all day (though it's exhausting), and the powers all being relatively blunt. You either slow down or accelerate people and objects, which can protect you and cause damage to them. But it's all very straightforward and doesn't allow you to do things that would be impossible to do with brute force or explosives. The only difference is, that you do it with your mind, without need for equipment and supplies, and to extends that a human body would never be able to be trained, even if you exercise and train all your life. However training in biotic powers comes at the expense of less training in martial or technological expertise.
But there's no divination, no hacking of computers, or telepathy capable to be used as a weapon, or rewriting of reality. Just the ability to deflect harm and to land a heavy punch as magic artillery.

Biotic adepts are probably most similar to wilders and psychic warriors from 3rd Edition. I don't think they can stand in for the regular D&D spellcasters, but would make a great alternative for different settings in which magic has a different role and importance.
I really, really would love to have 3rd Edition psionics to be re-invented for 5th Edition. That would be just the type of magic system I would need. Bruce Cordell is one the team. I want him to do something about that! ^^

 

[Minigiant]

I very much enjoy biotics from Mass Effects. There is possibly some detailed description burried deep in the background information, but the games themselves don't really go into detail about the physics behind it.

It's basically a number of psychic powers, which are all very basic and do not allow for fine manipulation. Basic things like emanating a protective field that deflects attacks, levitation, telekinetic thrusts, stasis, or disrupting the targets atomic structure. Since it's a science fiction world, the powers all are related to manipulating gravity, time, magnetism, and velocity. And since it's a fast paced video-game, there are only about 10 powers in all.
However, I very much enjoy the combination of being able to pretty much use the powers repetedly all day (though it's exhausting), and the powers all being relatively blunt. You either slow down or accelerate people and objects, which can protect you and cause damage to them. But it's all very straightforward and doesn't allow you to do things that would be impossible to do with brute force or explosives. The only difference is, that you do it with your mind, without need for equipment and supplies, and to extends that a human body would never be able to be trained, even if you exercise and train all your life. However training in biotic powers comes at the expense of less training in martial or technological expertise.
But there's no divination, no hacking of computers, or telepathy capable to be used as a weapon, or rewriting of reality. Just the ability to deflect harm and to land a heavy punch as magic artillery.

Biotic adepts are probably most similar to wilders and psychic warriors from 3rd Edition. I don't think they can stand in for the regular D&D spellcasters, but would make a great alternative for different settings in which magic has a different role and importance.
I really, really would love to have 3rd Edition psionics to be re-invented for 5th Edition. That would be just the type of magic system I would need. Bruce Cordell is one the team. I want him to do something about that! ^^

ME biotics could work in D&D's magic scheme despite being.. sc-fi.

But it does match something I wished D&D dived into further... grafting magic items directly into characters. Biotics (except for asari) use implants so what if a wizard figured out a way to implant a magic wand directly into people who have the correct criteria (high enough ability scores). The wand would be directly linked to the candidate as a power source.

Then via class levels the character could either have the wand upgraded or go through training for magic.

Now Mass Effect used a cooldown system with ME1 with each power and ME2 with linked cooldown. But there HAS to be a cooldown mage in 5E evenetually. Almost every TV show, movie, and book does the "I'm too tired to cast right now. Give a second to recharge." thing.

In fact I want to see cooldown/recharge magic in the first books.

 

[Yora]

But the cooldown would have to apply to all powers, not just to the one used last. Because then you would be back at the main reason why vancian casting strains versimilitude and and puts cracks on immersion.

I love the idea of permanent magic tattoos and charged magic paintings. They make characters look more primal and they actually exist in southeast asia. ^^

 

[Hautamaki]

There were a couple classes like that in 3.x, like the Runescar Barbarian. And didn't the Red Wizards of Thay have some sort of power tied to their tattoos?

 

[Alaxk Knight of Galt]

It will never come to pass in DnD, but I like George RR Martin's take on sorcery: "Sorcery is a sword without a hilt". I think the closest thing I'll get to that is DCC.

As for systems that have a shot at being made, I think both Wheel of Time or Mystborn. In fact, I think Wheel of Time would make an excellent magic system for a game.

 

[Minigiant]

But the cooldown would have to apply to all powers, not just to the one used last. Because then you would be back at the main reason why vancian casting strains versimilitude and and puts cracks on immersion.

It is magic. Anything outside of fatigue or pain as restriction is foreign to us. If the magic system breaks versimilitude then it hasn't been explained enough.

I love the idea of permanent magic tattoos and charged magic paintings. They make characters look more primal and they actually exist in southeast asia. ^^

Well the wizards of Planet Expel in Star Ocean 2 like Celine and Ashton scribes tuned on their bodies and weapons to cast magic. But Star Ocean used MP (and later HP casting)