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<blockquote data-quote="Khaalis" data-source="post: 5843532" data-attributes="member: 2167">IMHO and from what I've seen stated on this board and others, the most major contributing factors of the major problem with 4E and the way people assumed magic item wish lists and purchasing is...&nbsp; putting magic items in the PHB.By putting Magic Items in the PHB as part of the &quot;Equipment&quot; section available to players, this makes it the domain of the player and not the DM.&nbsp; As for the defense of only one paragraph in the DMG, try re-reading the PHB magic item section in the PHB1. It basically tells the player that their normal gear gets worthless and that they WILL get magic items. It even goes so far as to say that sometimes they will even be able to buy magic items and also pushes the use of the Enchant Magic ritual. All of these things give the fuel to the player to say &quot;its right here in the PHB&quot;.Yes, yes, the DM always has the right to say &quot;no, not in my game&quot; but that also often leads to the DM being a jerk and forging a DM vs. Player environment, which IMHO is never a good thing. D&amp;D is a game and a form of entertainment - a shared experience for fun. This is why the DMG says if none of your player's use bows, don't put a bow in the treasure. Which rather than saying it, innuendos &quot;because you should only give items the group can use&quot;. However, int he PHB it even gives the players the control of what to do even if they do get an item they don't want (sell or disenchant).&nbsp; As I mentioned before, in this respect the way they did magic items in 4E is very similar to itemization in MMOs.Also, you have the problem of 4E embracing the organized play model, much more so than in the past. House Rules and DM fiat mean nothing in this environment and the rules embraced as written, require the magic item availability for the core math to work.IMHO, these are major reasons where the view of 'players get what they want' comes from in 4E.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Khaalis, post: 5843532, member: 2167"] IMHO and from what I've seen stated on this board and others, the most major contributing factors of the major problem with 4E and the way people assumed magic item wish lists and purchasing is... putting magic items in the PHB. By putting Magic Items in the PHB as part of the "Equipment" section available to players, this makes it the domain of the player and not the DM. As for the defense of only one paragraph in the DMG, try re-reading the PHB magic item section in the PHB1. It basically tells the player that their normal gear gets worthless and that they WILL get magic items. It even goes so far as to say that sometimes they will even be able to buy magic items and also pushes the use of the Enchant Magic ritual. All of these things give the fuel to the player to say "its right here in the PHB". Yes, yes, the DM always has the right to say "no, not in my game" but that also often leads to the DM being a jerk and forging a DM vs. Player environment, which IMHO is never a good thing. D&D is a game and a form of entertainment - a shared experience for fun. This is why the DMG says if none of your player's use bows, don't put a bow in the treasure. Which rather than saying it, innuendos "because you should only give items the group can use". However, int he PHB it even gives the players the control of what to do even if they do get an item they don't want (sell or disenchant). As I mentioned before, in this respect the way they did magic items in 4E is very similar to itemization in MMOs. Also, you have the problem of 4E embracing the organized play model, much more so than in the past. House Rules and DM fiat mean nothing in this environment and the rules embraced as written, require the magic item availability for the core math to work. IMHO, these are major reasons where the view of 'players get what they want' comes from in 4E. [/QUOTE]

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