Magic Items with penalties

[BiggusGeekus]

I know there is a 10% discount for skill use and a 30% discount for alignments. But what about other penalties?

For the sake of discussion, start with this item, slightly edited

Headband of Intellect +2

This device is a light cord with a small gem set so that it rests upon the forehead of the wearer. The headband adds to the wearer’s Intelligence score in the form of an enhancement bonus of +2. This enhancement bonus does not earn the wearer extra skill points when a new level is attained; use the unenhanced Intelligence bonus to determine skill points.

Moderate transmutation; CL 8th; Craft Wondrous Item, fox’s cunning; Price 4,000 gp.

How do we make

Headband of Silly Example

The headband adds to the wearer’s Intelligence score in the form of an enhancement bonus of +2. This enhancement bonus does not earn the wearer extra skill points when a new level is attained; use the unenhanced Intelligence bonus to determine skill points. This headband reduces Wisdom by 2 points for no particular reason.

Moderate transmutation; CL 8th; Craft Wondrous Item, fox’s cunning, owl's wisdom; Price ??,000 gp.

I'm going back and forth. On the one hand in the hands of a crafty player, this penalty isn't much to write home about, while the benefit can be really good. But technically all this does is allow a degree of min/maxing.

Are there rules for such things? The guidelines in the SRD only seem to apply to skills and alignment. I hope this isn't expressly stated in the DMG or something because then I'll be embarrassed. I'm going back and forth on things like vulnerabilities, penalties to hit points, attributes, and saving throws. My "gut" tells me to figure the cost of the penalty as if it were a bonus take 10% of that and apply it as a discount on the item. So the Headband of Silly Example would cost 3,600 gp. But that's stuff I made up in my own head, it isn't really from anywhere.

I ask because I have an eye towards RPGSuperstar and I want to get as much correct as possible.

Thanks!

-BG

PS And I hope headbands get turned into pointy hats in 4e.

 

[s-dub]

PS And I hope headbands get turned into pointy hats in 4e.

You mean a cornuthaum

 

[Pyrex]

I don't think there can really be any hard-and-fast rulings there.

For a Headband of Int +2, a penalty to either, say, Str or Wis is pretty minor as they really won't affect the wearer all that much. So mabye a 10-15% discount.

OTOH, if the same headband carried a -2 penalty to Con, it might be worth as much as a 25-30% discount*.

*These discounts apply to effective Market Value only, and shouldn't shouldn't really effect the cost required to Craft the item at all. A Lich crafting a headband of Int +6 / Con -6 shouldn't be getting a price-break on the crafting...

 

[Mistwell]

I'd give ANY reduction to ability scores more than a measly 10% to 15% discount. It impacts skills, usually saves, some checks, vulnerability to some spells, and all sorts of stuff (like carrying capacity and vulnerability to all sorts of attacks like grapple for strength).

 

[Pyrex]

I'd give ANY reduction to ability scores more than a measly 10% to 15% discount. It impacts skills, usually saves, some checks, vulnerability to some spells, and all sorts of stuff (like carrying capacity and vulnerability to all sorts of attacks like grapple for strength).

How much? How much per stat?

How much discount should be placed on a Headband +6 Int / -2 Str / -4 Cha?

And what about my hypothetical Lich above? Should he be able to produce his headband more cheaply simply because he doesn't have a Con score?

 

[thedmstrikes]

Cursed item perhaps

I would chalk up items with significant drawbacks, such as the one you are describing, as a cursed item. It appears to offer a benefit, but in actuality it carries a penalty. I recall rules for cursed items in the DMG, after the standard magic items section and if I remember correctly, only NPCs were intended to craft such things, but DMs were left to figure it out as appropriate to their own campaigns. Now, I know what your thinking, that the item in question is a voluntary drawback in exchange for an improvement and not really a curse. Okay, then, in the rare case this is not a min/max attempt, I (an experienced DM) would rule that the new item has no reduction in cost because of the drawback. Why you ask? Because it is still an item created to do something and that something is the transfer of body energy from one aspect to another. It is not cheaper, just a different way of doing things. But if roleplayed appropriately, could be something like this:

Brawny fighter: I would gladly give up some of my strength for the intelligence to use what I have better.

Sympathetic magic item creator: I know it will cost me, but I am sympathetic to your plight and will create an item for you so that you may achieve your desire. If you would do but a small pitance for me while you are waiting for it to be finished...

Soon to be enlightedned brawny fighter: Yay! What do you want, master?

*I am trying to be a little comical, but emotions are so hard to express in this kind of environement...

 

[Slaved]

You could cut the price by half of the value the penalty would have if it was instead a bonus. I think that cutting the bonus value in half for the calculation would be the best way to go though, it makes the reduction scale much more slowly than bonuses.

Using the hat mentioned above a -2 penalty would have the reduction of a +1 bonus making the hat cost 3000 gold pieces.

Going further, a +6 intelligence hat with a -6 penalty to another statistic would cost 27000 gold pieces.

Some extra modification could be made based on the usefulness of the penalty as well.

I would suggest an absolute minimum cost at 0 gold pieces or more, maybe no greater reduction than 75% or each penalty beyond the first gives diminishing returns in value.

 

[Snowy]

Got to watch out for penalties that are useful.

A ring that penalises wisdom can nicely be used to knock some ( very unwise) person unconcious.

Possibly more valid is slapping an intelligence penalty on to a captured mage to make them easier to transport, or a charisma penalty onto someone to make it harder for them to lie (bluff).

On the other hand items that have penalties are inherently much cooler than otherwise, particularly if they are inconvenient penalties that still make the item good rather than severe ones that are binary easily avoidable/absolutely crippling.

And the head band of intellect for the liche it should so be the secret phylactory of his ex master by which he was slowly subverted and the new owner should find out by the occasional favour as the addiction to the enhanced brain smarts grows and grows, then the costs start to become apparent....

sorry got distracted

 

[BiggusGeekus]

On the other hand items that have penalties are inherently much cooler than otherwise, particularly if they are inconvenient penalties that still make the item good rather than severe ones that are binary easily avoidable/absolutely crippling.

That's how I feel, too.

 

[Thurbane]

In my game, I am a huge fan of having magic items with "side effects". Never really considered the cost adjustments, though, since item creation is fairly rare and magic-marts virtually non-existant. We play a more "you get what you find" type approach...