Magic: rare and mysterious - is there a game?

[Quasqueton]

All this talk (over the years, here) about how some people want magic to be rare, mysterious, etc. has brought me to ask this:

Is there a game system where magic (spells or items) is rare, mysterious, etc. but also available to the PCs?

Does making magic available to the PCs (at all) necessarily/automatically take magic out of the "rare and mysterious" catagory?

Quasqueton

 

[Crothian]

Ars Magica it is sort of, Call of Cthulu it is rare mysterious and dangerious

 

[Desdichado]

Conan
Black Company
Call of Cthulhu
Ars Magica
Any of the World of Darkness games
Most of the d20 Modern settings
Buffy
Skull & Crossbones

Yeah, that's about 10 seconds of riffing off the top of my head. Plenty of games fit that category.

 

[Quasqueton]

Ars Magica it is sort of, Call of Cthulu it is rare mysterious and dangerious

Is the magic available to PCs? How do these game systems make it rare/mysterious? Are there no solid game rules for magic in these systems?

Quasqueton

 

[Quasqueton]

Can you give me some examples of *how* these games make magic rare/mysterious, even in the hands of PCs?

Quasqueton

 

[BiggusGeekus]

Ars Magica is one as well, but the players are the wizards so while it is technically rare, it isn't rare for the PCs. I perfer 3rd edition of this game, myself.

For your second question, I think removing magic as a PC option does add a certain mystery. At least, I don't use psi and psi has a certain mystery to my players and when I GM'd d20 Modern magic use was freaky and strange. So, I'm guessing if I ran a game where you couldn't be a spellcaster until 3rd level and you had to make a spellcraft check to cast a spell correctly, then magic would have a little more "gee whiz" to it.

 

[Crothian]

Is the magic available to PCs? How do these game systems make it rare/mysterious? Are there no solid game rules for magic in these systems?

Quasqueton

Ars MAgica might have the single best magic system ever created. It is availible only to Wizards but there are rules on how the magic works they have to follow.

CoC anyone can learn spells but they will help you slowly go insane and can cause other problems.

 

[drothgery]

Does making magic available to the PCs (at all) necessarily/automatically take magic out of the "rare and mysterious" catagory?

No, but if you can reasonably build a character that relies on magic (and so uses it frequently), is balanced with other (non-magic-using) PCs, and hasn't entered into bargains with Evil entities, then it's pretty hard for magic to be rare and mysterious.

 

[BiggusGeekus]

Can you give me some examples of *how* these games make magic rare/mysterious, even in the hands of PCs?

Well, rare is easy. Just don't give it to them. Mysterious is a little more tricky.

For my d20M game (which is probably the best example) it was a case of my NPCs doing things the characters couldn't, but the players still knew I was going by "da r00lz". For example, I lobbed a slow spell at them and described it as the asphsalt reaching upward and entwining the PC's legs. That totally shocked them. I'd love to say that it was my Jonny Awesome DMing, but we toss around entangle all the time and no one even blinks an eye.

 

[Mr. Lobo]

No, but if you can reasonably build a character that relies on magic (and so uses it frequently), is balanced with other (non-magic-using) PCs, and hasn't entered into bargains with Evil entities, then it's pretty hard for magic to be rare and mysterious.

Yes that's the key I think. Character balance within the party. So that the magic users can contribute to combat, information gathering and defense in the game.

How would limiting the spell lists (core rules) for magic users work to try to simulate a low magic setting? Anyone try this? Would it be necessary to allow magic users greater fighting or defense capabilities? Bigger hit dice? To offset the lack of magic use?

Would players even be interested in playing such a character?

In AD&D I got the feeling that Gygax preached that magic items were rare and finding spells to add to spell books should also be rare. In a vast understatement I would suggest that the published modules he wrote were a bit contradictory to this idea. I always thought AD&D was supposed to be a low magic game.

I don't know about the idea that a character build based on using magic means that magic is just a "given" so to speak. What if the PC were only one of a handful (let's say between 10 and 15) magic users (arcane and divine) in the campaign setting? If the amount of magic in the campaign world is in low abundance then each magic item obtained will have more meaning for the PC than in a "standard" D&D setting wouldn't it? Thereby adding more of a gee-whiz factor for magic into the game?