[Magic] Snakes, Bugs & Assassins

[el-remmen]

So I been trying to make an effect posion deck for a while now, and can sometimes win a game, but mostly I get withing 6 or 7 poison counters before losing.


It is important to note that I only play magic within a very small circle of people and we as a general rule don't use anything past 7th edition (I have not bought a pack of Magic Cards since Visions came out), since we all hate the new "microsoft windows" look.
We have a gentleman's agreement as to what is restricted and banned (basically channel and ante cards). We trade among ourselves and sometimes pick up cheap older cards on eBay (Recently got 4 Juggernauts for .99 or something).

And obviously, because of the restrictions in terms of sets we use and my own limited collection that has not grown with any significance since around 1996 or '97, there are some things I just don't have (like a 4th Bayou)

So anyway, any advice or suggestions on what to include/exclude or trade out would be appreciated, or any other general deck-building advice. I have never been a competitive Magic player - I make decks for fun and to try to win, but mostly to try out ideas even if they end up "failures" in the long run.

Land
3 bayous
9 swamps
9 forests
1 Maze of Ith

Black
4 Swamp Mosquito
4 Suq'Ata Assassin
4 Ebony Charm
4 Terror
2 Dark Rituals
1 Demonic Tutor

Green
4 Sabretooth Cobra
2 River Boa
1 Yavimaya Gnat
3 Giant Growth
1 Regrowth
2 Fog
2 Tropical Storms
1 Sylvan Library

Artifacts
2 Meekstones
1 Sol Ring
1 Zuran Orb


Notes:

As soon as I get a couple of Serpent Generators from a friend I was planning on putting those in there along with 2 crumbles (in case I need quick life) and remove the ZUran Orb.

I only own 2 meekstones, but was going to bump this up to three or four once I get my hands on some more. OR, I can drop the meek stones altogether and put in some 3/3 Crypt Cobras (again, as soon as I get my hands on some, which will hopefully be soon) - which might be good since I feel like I could use more creatures, and Marsh Vipers and Pit Scorpions don't seem worth it.

I guess I could drop the Dark Rituals too since I don't necessarily need a lot of black mana all at once, except when I ghet a chance to drop an assassin in the first turn.

 

[Arkhandus]

The first think that jumps out at me is that you really, really need Fear, Flying, and Landwalk to get around blockers, so your poisoners can hit the opponent directly with poison counters. You've got some of it at least, but could use more, to get more of your creatures past defenses.


Throw in 3 or 4 copies of the Fear enchantment, and 1 or 2 artifacts that grant Flying to other creatures, like Flying Carpet, Whalebone Glider from Ice Age, or Chariot of the Sun from Mirage.

Funeral Charm, a black card from Visions, can grant Swampwalk for a turn. The older black enchantment Leshrac's Rite grants Swampwalk. Unseen Walker, a green creature from Mirage and 6th Edition, can grant Forestwalk to other creatures.

Mystic Compass, an artifact from Alliances and 6th Edition, can turn basic lands into different basic lands to make landwalk abilities useable. You can use a Cyclopean Tomb artifact (from alpha, beta, or unlimited) to turn lands into swamps, allowing use of Swampwalk to bypass defending creatures with your poisoners. Gauntlets of Chaos, another artifact, could be used instead to swap control of one of your lands with an opponent's land, making Swampwalk or Forestwalk viable.


You need Marsh Vipers! Green creatures that inflict 2 poison counters when they damage an opponent. These are what really need to be given flying, landwalk, or fear.

Throw in something like 2 copies of Venom, the green enchantment, so your blocker-types can kill big attackers even when using Fog. You need to buy time for your defense-evading poisoners. Throw in 1 or 2 copies of Wall of Bone, so you'll have a regenerating blocker that can still deal damage (and survive a few points without even needing to regenerate). Also 1 or 2 copies of Whip Vine would help, a green wall that can block flyers and make them tap and stay tapped (against a Serra Angel or similar, just use one of your Giant Growths or a Fog to keep the Whip Vine alive, then tap it for its activated ability).

A bit of card-drawing could be helpful.... 1 Howling Mine, Phyrexian Vault, Rowen (green enchantment from Visions, 6th, and 7th). Not really important, but it could make the deck speedier.


Does your group use the Tempest set, or the rest of the Rath Cycle (Stronghold and Exodus)? There are more cards you could use from there, like the Excavator artifact for landwalk abilities or the Dauthi Marauders/Slayers/Warlords/etc. for Shadow attackers, among other things.

 

[el-remmen]

Okay, let's see if I can address your advice, because as I said I have been tweaking this deck and have tried/considered some of what you are saying here. . .

First of all, Marsh Vipers don't seem worth it to me, four mana (even if 3 of it is colorless) for a 2/1 seems expensive.

Second, I originally had Fear in the deck but removed them because they seemed redundant. The Suq'Ata Assassin already comes with the fear power built-in (only blocked by black or artifact creatures). I am unimpressed by creature enchantments in general - as it always seems like investing too much in one creature to add stuff to it, when a lightning bolt or similar effect can still take them out.

Instead, I have four of the Ebony Charms which are instants that grant that ability for the turn, but also have 2 other options for one black mana - and I am all about having cards that can be used in more than one way.

Third, The mosquitos fly, but the Tropical Storms are there to deal with flying creatures if it gets too crazy on the opponent's end with flying creatures. I could go with Hurricanes, though I don't want to take the damage myself. I don't have any of the "flying" artifacts you mentioned.

Fourth, I use the Giant Growths to destroy creatures that do try to block, or when I need to use one of my creatures as a blocker.

Lastly, in terms of speeding up the deck, I try to make my decks as focused and lean as possible - so I try to avoid putting one card of any type that isn't restricted and that does not serve some other purpose as well. For example, in my faerie deck that has a lot of 1 or 2 mana creatures, i use howling mines to draw quicker, but since the opponent also draws faster I have black vises and stormseekers - that way the mines serve two purposes.

As for Tempest, we use them - but I don't own any! I split a box of Mirage and another of Visions back in the day, and those were my final Magic purchases until recent cheap one-offs.

Anyway, thanks for the advice - I had considered Whip Vines. . .

 

[Arkhandus]

OK, but it should be pretty helpful to throw in 2 or 3 Funeral Charms (the Visions equivalent of Ebony Charms), Unseen Walkers, or Excavators (they shouldn't be too hard to find and buy or trade for, and shouldn't be expensive IIRC) along with 1-3 copies of Mystic Compass or a Gauntlets of Chaos (more expensive, if you can't just find one to trade for). Your own Demonic Tutor should suffice to help fetch one of these artifacts when needed. Landwalk is a lot better for getting around defenses than Flying or nothin' at all.

Marsh Vipers may be kinda expensive, but with landwalk or fear they can be very effective at 2 poison counters per turn. And they don't interfere with the Meekstones.

1 card might be swapped out for a Whip Vine, as a more-consistent flyer-defense than Tropical Storm. Sure, you'll still want something to kill Sengirs and Serras and Shivans and such, but at least the Whip Vine can handle them if you throw down a Giant Growth or Fog, while providing enduring defense against weaker flyers.

 

[el-remmen]

1 card might be swapped out for a Whip Vine, as a more-consistent flyer-defense than Tropical Storm. Sure, you'll still want something to kill Sengirs and Serras and Shivans and such, but at least the Whip Vine can handle them if you throw down a Giant Growth or Fog, while providing enduring defense against weaker flyers.

Well, I do have four Terrors in there. They help with any big creature that isn't black.

I only own one Marsh Viper, maybe I'll throw it in until I figure out if I want to add the Serpent Generators and/or Crypt Cobras.

Thanks.

 

[chronoplasm]

I know you hate the 'Windows' look, but there is one cheap common card that you might consider picking up. It's a Sliver that grants all Slivers the poisonous ability. Its a "future-shifted" card from the Futuresight set so it actually has a completely different cardframe from normal.

*edit*
Here it is (I hope it isn't just showing up as a red X):

Virulent Sliver.
Even if you aren't playing a Sliver deck, if you have multiples of this guy out their abilities stack. If you have four of these critters out then each one puts 4 poison counters on your opponent if it hits.

 

[el-remmen]

Does that card really cost 1 green mana? I mean, it took me a while to find where the casting cost was, so I might have looked in the wrong place or not understand something about the new format.

Thanks, but it just an agreement among the folk I play with - we stick to the old cards. Plus, it may be dumb, but it would bother me aesthetically to have cards of the different look in the same deck.

 

[MerricB]

Hey there! I've played a Green/Black poison deck in the past... and it's really, really hard.

What you'd really like to do is get your creatures to attack each turn and your opponents to never attack (or do damage). A few cards that I rather enjoy to that end:

Meekstone + Winter Blast/Icy Manipulator - your opponents don't get to untap their creatures with the meekstone, and Winter Blast or Icy taps them.

Rowen + Sylvan Library - one of the great combinations of Magic. This is "draw 2 cards every turn". Or more.

Spike Weaver - a rare from Stronghold, this Spike allows you to "fog" every three turns.

Spore Cloud - a dismissed common from Fallen Empires, but it's Fog++ - not only causes no damage, but the attacking creatures don't untap next turn.

Mind you, the biggest problem with your deck are the number of cards you burn for no permanent effect. A Sengir Vampire or three and your deck curls up and dies. Ebony Charm, Fog and Dark Ritual are really nothing cards. Tropical Storm is too situational.

Global Enchantments are worth playing; local enchantments no, unless they're really good.

Cheers!

 

[MerricB]

Does that card really cost 1 green mana? I mean, it took me a while to find where the casting cost was, so I might have looked in the wrong place or not understand something about the new format.

It's not actually the new format... it's a possible future format, and a card that may turn up one day in an actual set. (Mark Rosewater had a lot of fun with cards from the past, present and future recently...)

Here's another card you might enjoy using:


(click on the picture to go to a place where you could buy the card in question. No idea if they're a good place to buy from or not, but they have a few of the card at a good price for a rare!).

You'd need a better mana base to play DPOR, but it's a very good card for a poison deck, especially if you have the Serpent Generators.

Cheers!

 

[chronoplasm]

Does that card really cost 1 green mana? I mean, it took me a while to find where the casting cost was, so I might have looked in the wrong place or not understand something about the new format.

Thanks, but it just an agreement among the folk I play with - we stick to the old cards. Plus, it may be dumb, but it would bother me aesthetically to have cards of the different look in the same deck.

Makes sense.
I often find it to be a little aesthetically jarring when I'm playing my Demon deck since I have such a wierd mixture of cardframes in there.