Magical Item Compendium II-Staffs

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

The more I think about it, the more I agree that this is the way I'd like to see all staffs done. I'd love to see a Runestaff of the Magi and a Runestaff of Power written up.

 

[yipwyg42]

The closest I have come to creating this item with the creation rules is the following

Create staff as normal

highest: spell level x min caster level to cast spell x 375
next highest: spell level x min caster level to cast spell x 281.25
all others: spell level x min caster level to cast spell x 187.5

take the total and multiply it by .695 and round it to nearest 500

 

[MerricB]

I disagree with the comment here that the Runestaff of Transportation is more likely to be used by a Wizard than a Sorcerer since Sorcerers tend to know utility spells. What do you think?

Olaf the Stout

Actually, I agree. If your PC is going to have only one staff (a fair assumption), then the Wizard will find this staff far more useful - Teleport tends to be used quite a bit, but you can't assume when it will be used. Better for a sorcerer to have a more broad utility staff.

Cheers!

 

[Slife]

What's a knowstone?

Oh, and I love these runestaves.

Very expensive unslotted magical items (price is spell level squared * 1000gp) that add spells known to spontaneous casters. The runestaves have a use per day limit, but if you need a spell often enough to make it an issue, you'll want to have it as a wand or a normal spell.

See thread at http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22008 for knowstone discussion

 

[WhatGravitas]

The closest I have come to creating this item with the creation rules is the following

Create staff as normal

highest: spell level x min caster level to cast spell x 375
next highest: spell level x min caster level to cast spell x 281.25
all others: spell level x min caster level to cast spell x 187.5

take the total and multiply it by .695 and round it to nearest 500

Not bad. Seems to be something like that... or (a bit more rounded):

Highest Level Spell: Spell Level x Min. Caster Level x 250
Second Highest Spell: Spell Level x Min. Caster Level x 187.5
Everything Else Spell Level x Min. Caster Level x 125

- however, I'm curious... they're pretty expensive to the "Keyed Spell Items" from BoHMII (by Monte)... there they cost (Spell Level)^2 x 100 gp, but eat a slot... so unslotted: (spell level)^2 x 200 gp - that's immensely cheaper than the Runestaves. So... are the runestaves overpriced, or are the "Keyed Spell Items" are horrendously underpriced? Especially considering that the staves need attunement and can only be used 3/day...

 

[frankthedm]

I won't allow it in my campaing. If I do, every Sorcerer in the world will be camping at the nearest Magic Shoppe waiting their turn to buy one.

That is my gut feeling too.

 

[Nyeshet]

Especially considering that the staves need attunement and can only be used 3/day...

I'll have to go back and re-read it. Somehow I thought it was each spell in the staff could be used once per day. If it is more along the lines of any spell in the staff, but overall uses of the staff no more than 3 per day, that changes the feel and balance of the item.

Even though the spells on a runestaff cannot be used more than three times per day (or less, in some cases),

Okay, I note that it does not state whether 3/day refers to the runestaff or the spells themselves. In the first case, a runestaff with more than 3 spells in it will never see all of its spells used each day, as only three of them might - at most - be used in any given day. In the latter instance, each spell can be used up to - at most - three times per day, the number of uses probably varying by the spell (as it states 'or less, in some cases'). At present, there is no way to know how they meant it - at least not until we see more of the text regarding runestaves.

spontaneous casters with unfixed lists, such as bards and sorcerers

This confuses me a bit. Bards have fixed lists, and - albeit quite longer - so do sorcerers. There are arcane spells that are not on the Wiz/Sor lists, although this tends to be rare, I admit. The example suggests that a spell should be on their class list - which seems to go against the idea of allowing bards, etc to use spells that they do not know. It seemed to suggest by text near the top that a bard could use any arcane spell it did not know so long as the spell was arcane, yet later on it stated in the text that the spell must be on their list of learnable spells. Color me confused, but I am no longer certain this is as useful an item as it first sounded to be.

The later text suggests that a wizard may not be able to use a runestaff unless the spell is in their spell book - which seems to utterly contradict the suggested use of a bard or sorcerer using a runestaff to expand their spells known to whichever arcane spell happens to be on whichever arcane runestaff they come upon. I get the feeling they are trying to limit this item to only bards and sorcerers, as other arcane casters either can't use it if 1) they prepare spells and the spells in the staff are not amongst those they have written in their book, or 2) they have a list of spells from which they can learn spells and the spells are not on that list - excluding the bard or sorcerer, as stated at the top of the text being examples of arcane spontaneous users able to expand their spells known to any arcane spell so long as it is in the runestaff.

It is a somewhat confusing mess, I think. And while I note that they limited runestaves to arcane magic, I can still see clerics getting use out of this:

Least runestaff of ______ domain = spells 1-3 of ______ domain.
Lesser runestaff of ______ domain = spells 4-6 of ______ domain.
Greater runestaff of ______ domain = spells 7-9 of ______ domain.

I'd probably limit use of such runestaves to clerics of a deity having such a domain, however, as I can see their patron deity getting irritated with them if they were depending upon the spells of another deity. Still, many deities have 3 or 4 domains, so a cleric with, say, the fire and good domain of Pelor might find the Greater Runstaff of the Sun domain to be quite useful, as otherwise he does not have access to those spells of his deity. I can see such a staff being a major holy object of the church of Pelor, in fact, while a Least staff of the Sun domain might be purchaseable by any cleric of Pelor who has not chosen the Sun domain.

Hmm, here is an odd idea. If a bard creates a Runestaff of Cure Light, Moderate, and Serious Wounds, could a sorcerer use it - in effect using the arcane (due to being created by and from the list of the Bard) runestaff for Arcane healing? The trick would only work for a bard creating a staff for a sorcerer to later use, as they are the only classes listed in the description as being able to use any arcane runestaff due to being "spontaneous casters with unfixed lists."

At present, having a class with healing spells (usually on a list rather than learned) is almost a must. If a Bard could create a runestaff with healing spells in it (albeit only the basic ones), it would allow any party that bought such a runestaff to exist without any divine (or bardic) healing, so long as any other arcane caster was present. It is not exactly arcane healing (as the runestaff is needed, and if attuned to another runestaff the advantage is lost until re-attunement to the curing runestaff re-occurs), but it is closer than I think we have seen before from WotC.

 

[Li Shenron]

I think they are way too powerful for their price.

Basically they grant you 2-6 more spells known, and the ability to cast them spontaneously.

The only limitations are (1) one staff per character (but you can change it every day) and (2) not more than 3 casting of the same spell per day. These are NOT harsh limitations at all! Very simply, you won't look forward to having a runstaff with Magic Missile or Fireball.

The extra spells known are a HUGE boost to sorcerers.
The spontaneous casting of several spells is HUGE boost to wizard.

Personally I think they are insanely low-priced. If this isn't power creep, then I don't know what is...

 

[EyeontheMountain]

I think they are way too powerful for their price.

<snip>

The extra spells known are a HUGE boost to sorcerers.
The spontaneous casting of several spells is HUGE boost to wizard.

Personally I think they are insanely low-priced. If this isn't power creep, then I don't know what is...

I really have to agree. Either way you do it, they will be very very useful for anyone who can afford them. I don't think I wantthem in my games, especially if each one has a bunch of spells, but I do agree that this is what rods and staffs should have been since the beginning.

I would like to see an extra cost associated with them like ability damage, or stricter use.

Maybe paying two slots for each staff spell would be reasonable.

 

[Nyeshet]

(2) not more than 3 casting of the same spell per day. These are NOT harsh limitations at all! Very simply, you won't look forward to having a runstaff with Magic Missile or Fireball.

It could mean only 3 castings (or less) from a runestaff per day, although I tend to lean away from this reading, due to the fact that some runestaves have more than 3 spells in them.

The extra spells known are a HUGE boost to sorcerers.
The spontaneous casting of several spells is HUGE boost to wizard.

Wizards may not be able to use a spell in a runestaff if it is not known to them (ie: in their book or known via Spell Mastery). From their descriptions it seems that only Bards and Sorcerers gain the 'extra spells known via runestaff' usage, as the Duskblade in the description could not use a spell they could not learn from their list. Also, another description seemed to suggest that a wizard would have less use for the staff except for being able to memorize utility spells and use a runestaff for other spells they already know (ie: is in their spellbook).

Really, there are too many unknown details in regards to these runestaffs. Why can't a wizard get as much use out of a runestaff as a sorcerer (ie: gains new spells known while attuned to it), and why is it that bards can use it to 'know' (at least while attuned to the correct runestaff) any arcane spell, but a duskblade cannot? Actually, why are bards - or sorcerers, for that matter - considered to be "spontaneous casters with unfixed lists", considering that their lists of learnable spells are quite fixed, albeit longer than those of most other spontaneous arcane casters?