Magus: "Staying the Course"

[gamerprinter]

I agree the 'Magus' needs to be full BAB, and I don't see this as unbalanced with the other classes, I think best fitting under a Ranger structure build, that is full BAB, arcane spells start at 4th level and only gain up to 4th level spells, that would work just fine.

If I were to build a 3/4 BAB gish, I'd be using the Inquisitor to base the build, starting at 1st level and going up to 6th level spells with a limited spell list.

Actually Tejon, one of the Paizo members (16th place in this years RPG Superstar contest) has been working on an Iron Mage gish class, which is built on the Ranger structure as mentioned above - very much a PF conversion of Hexblade, but with many balanced and original powers.

I've been following closely on his development of the class and think he's done a great job. I happen to be working on an Iron Age Celtic setting, and Tejon has agreed to let me port in his Iron Mage to be included in the publication - though he plans on publishing it as a standalone class on his own as well.

Tejon's Iron Mage, is much better than Paizo's Magus IMO.

GP

 

[JRRNeiklot]

The bard has all sorts of perform stuff and tons of buffs. The rogue has sneak attack, and the monk, well, the monk sucks. The monk is HORRIBLE in combat. The magus needs a to hit bonus. It doesn't have to be full bab, they could tack on some clunky method, but full bab is the simplest and most elegant solution.

Uh, yeah. The Bard, Rogue, Inquisitor, and Monk all do pretty well in combat.

As I posted over at the Paizo forums, it's due to having situational benefits that either increase the attack (Monks), drastically increase the damage (Rogue), or give a little extra in both (Bards and Inquisitors).

The Magus currently has a penalty. To both.

Arcane spells aren't that powerful that they need to be hobbled so much (see the Bard). Arcane blasting spells are especially not such an issue (especially with non-primary spellcaster dealing with spell DCs).

 

[JRRNeiklot]

People are still claiming that. I don't buy it any more then I think this class needs it. Besides if this class had it, it would not have a single spell till level 4.

Why? There's no logical reason to marry full bab to the ranger/paladin spell progression.

Super Genius Games gives us the archon. Full bab, 6th level spells, and it works fine. I had one in my Kingmaker campaign and it was far from overpowered. In combat, he did less damage than the paladin or ranger, and less damage than spells than the sorceror, but not horribly so, which is just about right.

http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?cPath=5251&products_id=69112

 

[Hunter In Darkness]

Honestly I could care less what someone else did. Full BAB is a half caster. 3/4TH BAB is a 3/4 caster . Paizo seems to agree. Which is fine by me. If ya want to be a front line Full BAB class you are stuck with the same spell progression the other two front line caster classes have.

Because it's arcane is not a reason to make a whole new spell progression. Full BAB is married to a half caster, like it or not.

 

[ruemere]

Magus, as per core of original design, is a melee combatant capable of casting spells during full attack action. Essentially, he should achieve efficiency of flanking two-weapon-wielding Fighter/Rogue.

As per initial playtest impressions, the class gets pretty close to this ideal with the following differences:
- Magus class begins to show its power around 8th level. Prior to this, it is failing a lot.
- Magus class burns through its resources very quickly, being viable through 2 of 4 encounters.
- Special abilities (spellstrike and others) appear to work fine once certain requirements are met.

So, the class is fine at its core concept. It needs polishing and possibly one or two archetypes to add more stuff.

Regards,
Ruemere

 

[DaveMage]

My question is, is it fun to play - especially at lower levels?

If so, great!

If not, retool it.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

Honestly I could care less what someone else did. Full BAB is a half caster. 3/4TH BAB is a 3/4 caster . Paizo seems to agree. Which is fine by me. If ya want to be a front line Full BAB class you are stuck with the same spell progression the other two front line caster classes have.

Because it's arcane is not a reason to make a whole new spell progression. Full BAB is married to a half caster, like it or not.

Then it's high time they got a divorce. The folks at Paizo are not some mystical experts on game design. Once upon a time they were that someone else. Sometimes they make mistakes. This is one of them. I want to like the magus, perhaps I will, but currently it's going to be riding the bench like the monk. A lot of players will want to play it, but few will stick with it after they find they'll never hit anything level appropriate. Missing and casting a spell is no different than not attacking and casting a spell. He needs a to hit bonus. Without it, he'll be slightly better than a multiclass fighter/wizard. They can duct tape an ability that grants a to hit bonus on, which will mean something else to keep up with, or they can do just fix the problem and give him full bab. It's been done before with the archon and before that, the duskblade. Neither were overpowered.

 

[Jor-El]

No offense intended, but if the Magus as a med. BAB class really peeves you off so bad, just stick with the Archon or the Duskblade.

I see alot of folks over on the Paizo boards getting awfully worked up over something that should be pretty trivial.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

I'm not peeved off. I just think the magus is going to be potential wasted. And not because of an honest mistake or unintended consequences, but because Paizo insists upon their mystical formula of tying base attack to hit dice and caster level. If they think full bab is overpowered, I'm okay with that. I disagree, but I'm ok with it. But sticking to 3/4 base attack simply because of this blueprint they have is just wrong.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

Actually, now that I think about it, a magus with full bab could get nasty when combined with the eldritch knight. A magus 8/w2/EK10 would have 3rd level spells and 6th level spells and a base attack of +19. Now this is an actual reason to not have full base attack, and not because of their bab/hd/sl template. Though I suppose you could say magus and EKs are separate disciplines and entering one class prohibited entering the other.