Making a Galleon Fly

[moritheil]

This option might be totally useless because I have absolutely no idea about the numbers at the moment but if certain strength of a certain size monster has the required carrying capacity, making that guy fly might solve your problem

Clearly, all you need to do is cast Overland Flight on your pet tarrasque . . .

 

[Krelios]

All of the ideas that you've come up with so far work just fine. It's your approach that's all wrong. Question: How many people do you know that could build a regular galleon all by themselves?

Your pc should be looking for a patron. And in the end, the galleon wouldn't belong to the pc, but all the pcs would have access to it. By dint of questing or indentured servitude, they can get what they want within the bounds of your campaign world.

And does it have to be a galleon? What about a smaller ship with some extra-dimensional storage space?

Also, Eberron features flying ships. They're powered by elementals bound into rings that provide the motive force.

Actually, I'm the DM, and I am trying to figure out how powerful the nation that constructs such objects would be. I suppose I could drop things down from a Galleon to a Sloop or Pinnace and save a lot of time and money, but it looks like the end result is that they're too darned expensive or impossible to acheive for a nation that has a cabal of a dozen or so 9th-10th level casters to craft for them.

I guess I'll try to figure a way for those same casters to develop a technique for extracting helium from natural gas deposits to build blimps. Hmmm... Do you suppose there might be helium springs in the Plane of Air...?

 

[moritheil]

Actually, I'm the DM, and I am trying to figure out how powerful the nation that constructs such objects would be. I suppose I could drop things down from a Galleon to a Sloop or Pinnace and save a lot of time and money, but it looks like the end result is that they're too darned expensive or impossible to acheive for a nation that has a cabal of a dozen or so 9th-10th level casters to craft for them.

I guess I'll try to figure a way for those same casters to develop a technique for extracting helium from natural gas deposits to build blimps. Hmmm... Do you suppose there might be helium springs in the Plane of Air...?

I forget . . . can mages of that level bind fire elementals? If so, you could just have a fire elemental in a brazier continually heating up the air above it in for a balloon-lifted ship. Kind of goofy, and I don't think there are established mechanics, but as a handwaving argument it seems possible.

 

[JimAde]

Hydrogen's a lot easier to get out of the environment (water). And loads more fun.

 

[moritheil]

Hydrogen's a lot easier to get out of the environment (water). And loads more fun.

Uh, only if hydrogen actually exists in your universe. Keep in mind that the laws of chemistry that apply to reality do not necessarily apply to the DnDverse. Quite a few campaigns have water as a fundamental element (since there is a Plane of Water, and elementals of water exist.) As such, hydrogen cannot be extracted from water in those campaigns.

 

[Krelios]

No, even though there is an elemental plane of Water, it still has to consist of Hydrogen and Oxygen for most everything else to be possible (including life). I will use physics and reality wherever I can without significantly hampering the game.

 

[darthkilmor]

Actually, I'm the DM, and I am trying to figure out how powerful the nation that constructs such objects would be. I suppose I could drop things down from a Galleon to a Sloop or Pinnace and save a lot of time and money, but it looks like the end result is that they're too darned expensive or impossible to acheive for a nation that has a cabal of a dozen or so 9th-10th level casters to craft for them.

IIRC the Neogi have flying ships that they use(in lords of madness) but they dont detail the creation i think.

Although I have to question your scaling, a NATION only has a dozen 9th-10th lvl casters? are you dm'ing a low magic campaign?

 

[moritheil]

No, even though there is an elemental plane of Water, it still has to consist of Hydrogen and Oxygen for most everything else to be possible (including life). I will use physics and reality wherever I can without significantly hampering the game.

Aha. So is there an elemental plane of cheese pizza? No? What makes water special then? Why does it get to have its own plane?

I'm not trying to be an ass, I'm just pointing out that to some people, making water, fire, etc. something other than fundamental elements is significantly hampering the game.

For example - is your Plane of Fire just a really hot place with air and lots of fire? If so, then how is it the Plane of Fire when there's so much air? What is the fire burning? There has to be a lot of non-fire stuff to burn if fire works as it does in real life. On the other hand, if pure fire is itself truly an element and exists in a natural, hot, burning state without consuming anything, then there can really be a Plane of Fire and just fire. Likewise, there can be fire elementals made of "solid fire" and the efreeti City of Brass which is made of really dense fire that looks like glowing brass. (According to this theory, fires that occur on the Prime Material Plane are "imperfect" fires and thus require air and fuel.)

The fact that it is absurd from a scientific point of view isn't really the point, as science itself is optional in DnD. There's no reason that water has to be hydrogen and oxygen to support life if the Krebs process, etc. doesn't exist and water instead supports life through a more mystical process. Your assertion that all of that has to be true is not wrong, but it presupposes biochemistry, and it's worth noting that a lot of that is in conflict with the traditional Greek elemental theory of the world (which is the basis of the planes, fire elementals running around, etc.)

It might be simpler to explain some things (you mentioned life) by using a strictly scientific reality, but it will be much harder to explain other things, such as the inner workings or reasoning of magic. Of course, if you want, you can simply say, "There is a plane of fire because it's magic! Who needs a reason?"

If that satisfies you, enjoy.

 

[Krelios]

Although I have to question your scaling, a NATION only has a dozen 9th-10th lvl casters? are you dm'ing a low magic campaign?

Always. I hate the idea of magic item shops and not being able to piss in a circle without hitting an archmage. If there are that many high level casters in the world, there's no need for adventurers.

 

[Krelios]

Aha. So is there an elemental plane of cheese pizza? No? What makes water special then? Why does it get to have its own plane?

I'm not trying to be an ass, I'm just pointing out that to some people, making water, fire, etc. something other than fundamental elements is significantly hampering the game.

For example - is your Plane of Fire just a really hot place with air and lots of fire? If so, then how is it the Plane of Fire when there's so much air? What is the fire burning? There has to be a lot of non-fire stuff to burn if fire works as it does in real life. On the other hand, if pure fire is itself truly an element and exists in a natural, hot, burning state without consuming anything, then there can really be a Plane of Fire and just fire. Likewise, there can be fire elementals made of "solid fire" and the efreeti City of Brass which is made of really dense fire that looks like glowing brass. (According to this theory, fires that occur on the Prime Material Plane are "imperfect" fires and thus require air and fuel.)

The fact that it is absurd from a scientific point of view isn't really the point, as science itself is optional in DnD. There's no reason that water has to be hydrogen and oxygen to support life if the Krebs process, etc. doesn't exist and water instead supports life through a more mystical process. Your assertion that all of that has to be true is not wrong, but it presupposes biochemistry, and it's worth noting that a lot of that is in conflict with the traditional Greek elemental theory of the world (which is the basis of the planes, fire elementals running around, etc.)

It might be simpler to explain some things (you mentioned life) by using a strictly scientific reality, but it will be much harder to explain other things, such as the inner workings or reasoning of magic. Of course, if you want, you can simply say, "There is a plane of fire because it's magic! Who needs a reason?"

If that satisfies you, enjoy.

I see your point. The rationalization is that there are planes for water, fire, air and earth because they represent the source of magical energy types. There should, of course, also be a plane of sound, but that would be a little abstract even for an inner plane. Science has to function on my material planes the same way it does in our world for there to be any sense at all in the way things work. IMC, a fireball will make a sound because it rapidly burns the oxygen in the area. It won't fill volume because the area of the spell is basically replaced with a section of the plane of fire for a moment, not because I summon a certain mass of an explosive material.

It takes work to be consistent with the basic rules of physics and magic, but it allows players to be more creative, IMHO.