DracoSuave
First Post
4th edition is not 3.5, and some things changed for a reason.
Making adjustments to Rituals?
- Thread starter weem
- Start date
Doctor Proctor
First Post
I didn't play 3.5 and could care less what the cast time was in that version.
Exactly. Things were changed to prevent some of the issues with older editions, such as the Wizard having so much utility with spells like Knock and such that it made other classes obsolete. Now you have a situation where Rituals can sometimes make up for the party's shortcomings in certain skills, but still allowing the appropriate skill to shine when it's available since it can be done instantly.
this is the same game where if you go to sleep with 1 hit point you wake up the next day with full hit points.. So what's the difference if I have to spend a minute or a couple hours when all you have to do is rez the guy and keep on going like nothing happened? Everyone is worried about keeping the "adventuring" day down a t. Will it matter if you can rez someone in 5 minutes or 5 hours? If it's 5 minutes then you can do it like Doctor Proctor said before that the guy can be alive in the short time you spend resting. If it's 5 hours then you can just as easily hole your party in some part of the dungeon. It amounts to the same thing but my house rule just makes it faster to do so. Do I really want to spend 10 minutes casting tenser's floating disc? No, not really. I still have to spend the gold for it either way.DracoSuave said:
Why not, though? I don't quite see what difference it makes if it's five minutes or ten.
I also vaguely remember there's already something in the game that allows you to perform rituals faster - wasn't there an item in AV that allows you to halve the time it normally takes? Or was it a class ability of one of the new classes from a preview?
chitzk0i
Explorer
Yes, the aptly named Ritualist's ring. A level 24 item on page 163.
Also, it sounds like the OP is looking for something from the House Rules forum.
DracoSuave
First Post
But there IS a difference between five minutes and ten in 4e. One can be done during a short rest, the other can't. That's important for characters not performing the ritual, so a cleric can, for example, use the opportunity to use Healing Word a couple times to make post-fight healing more efficient.
sure and a lot of those reasons were really bad, and the new rules end up making the game lame in the other direction.
I have no desire to see rituals happening in rounds, but the 10 minute baseline for most rituals I find to be overboard in the extreme. A couple minutes tops for the vast majority of rituals would remove them from combat and not be any more unbalanced than 10+ minutes.
And no short rests being 5 minutes does not make a difference. You have 1 question when dealing with time for short rests. Do they have enough time for a short rest or not. If no, it does not really matter you probably wont finish a short ritual and you wont get the short rest. If yes, really the question is am I giving them enough time to get to full health and do what they want or not.
Once you are giving multiple short rest periods its not like there DMs are usually giving specific times before something happens like 13 minutes, its just enough time to do X or not enough time to do X. And however much stuff you are getting done, a rituasl of any length puts you in a slower short rest period than the rest of the party, so the DM can aways still put the ritual caster at some kind of penalty, by either interupting the ritual or by giving no or less rest periods.
At the 1 rest level the person is then making a decision short rest or ritual. At the multiple rest level you are really saying, I am letting the party get all the stuff done they want. And really that is all the balnce you need.
And side note the costs in gold has crossed the border of absurd on quite a few rituals.
DracoSuave
First Post
Most of this is cut, but this is my rebuttal. If the time it takes makes no difference, then what point is there in shortening them? I mean, if you agree that it's handwaved most of the time, then whats the difference between handwaving 2 minutes and handwaving 10 minutes?
If it doesn't make a difference then there's no point arguing for -either- side. My point is that it does actually allow the party time to do something they might not ordinarily do.
But in most terms, there is no difference between 2 and 5 minutes for a ritual, both disallow the short rest while others can have one-you'd have to spend 10 minutes anyways. (Can't perform a ritual while resting) So you're really looking at 10 vs 15 minutes.
Doctor Proctor
First Post
The issue here is not the 10 minute rituals. For those, if you really felt that it should be 5 minutes, fine. It's not a big deal. The problem is all the rituals that take several hours to complete. These rituals were designed that way to limit how many times you could do certain things in a day.
Take Raise Dead, for instance. If you were in a quest with a time limit, you might have to decide between failing a portion of the quest and raising your ally. This is important, and really allows for a lot of opportunities within the game. If the ritual were just 10 minutes though, then it's not big deal and you can just rez the guy in the room right outside of the BBEG fight at the end. That's silly.
Take Raise Dead, for instance. If you were in a quest with a time limit, you might have to decide between failing a portion of the quest and raising your ally. This is important, and really allows for a lot of opportunities within the game. If the ritual were just 10 minutes though, then it's not big deal and you can just rez the guy in the room right outside of the BBEG fight at the end. That's silly.
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