Making Goblins a threat for a 3rd level party.

[Thanee]

Vampire Spawn Goblins!

Bye
Thanee

 

[Nyarlathotep]

These are the goblins I used to replace the ones listed in World's Largest Dungeon (Region B - Cut & Pasted from another board I posted this to).

Goblin Fighter 1

Since they do have player class levels, give them the elite attribute array (15,14,13,12,10,. Assign the 12 to Wisdom & the 10 to Intelligence.

Now, replace their base feats with Phalanx Fighting (Complete Warrior) and one feat of your choice (I'm partial to Toughness to give them a few more hit points or Shieldmate (Complete Warrior) to help the back ranks).

Finally give them some decent equipment, the only requirement is that they have a heavy shield and a light weapon to take advantage of Phalanx Fighting. Mine were equipped with the following:

Masterwork Studded Leather Armor
Masterwork Heavy Wooden Shields
Masterwork Short Sword
Ranseur
Sling (w/ 10 bullets)
[NOTE: Masterwork component is optional]

Total Value: 653 gp (recommended equipment value for 1st level NPC is 900gp)

Now have them fight in formation (generally 4 abreast & 2 rows). The front row forms a shield wall, the second row uses their ranseurs (reach weapons) to Aid Another on the goblin in front of them - generally provide defense.

What does this get you?

Well your front rank shield wall goblins will have a base AC of 20 (+1 size, +3 Dex, +3 Armor, +3 Shield (phalanx fighting provides an extra +1 shield bonus with a heavy shield)). All the goblins in the shield wall will have an AC of 22 (+2 bonus from Phalanx Fighting), 24 if the back ranks Aid Another successfully), 26 if they choose to fight defensively and more if you were to throw a hobgoblin marshal (Class from Miniatures Handbook) into the mix.

Their attack bonuses are brutally bad as is the damage that they do (damn being small!), but the high AC will stop many PCs in their tracks until they figure out how to effectively destroy their formation. My group is fond of grenade-like weapons, bullrushing to break the formation, and area effect spells. But it sure did scare them.

 

[jigokusabre]

+1 to attack only for melee. No high ground bonus for ranged. (?!?)



I'm not sure all of that works out... I am pretty sure that the aid another and flanking bonus does not apply to the opposed strength check, just on the touch attack. A good idea would be to have them have improved trip and weapons specially suited for tripping. Also, I think that when they do the attacks of opportunity, they won't all be getting aid another bonuses.

Well, if you can aid another on any other skill or ability check, why not with the strength check for trip / disarm? The rules as stated in the SRD do not explicitly state one way or the other... I suppose it would be a DM decision, unless it states somewhere that I'm wrong.

 

[Wolf72]

give all the 1hd gobs max hp ... (8hp plus toughness =11 hp)

numbers and tactics ... go primitive even ... clubs and slings, wearing padded armor.

and decide ahead of time if they'd run or stay and fight

... enough goblins could very well drain the party's immediate resources quickly

 

[TheYeti1775]

One Word .... Tactics

Goblins - Darkvision, night ambush, missile weapons first against sentries. They swarm in for the kill.

 

[ZenFrodo]

Remember Dragonlance's "gnomeflingers"?

One word.

Goblinflingers.

Don't go toe-to-toe. Strike from a distance with arrows & run like hell. Strike again. Run again. Strike again, and have a *second* ambush group nail the PCs from behind, then run. Lead 'em into traps (spiked with sharpened wood staves). In caves, looping, twisting passages & hideyholes can ruin a PCs day.

 

[Zandel]

Just had a wicked idea..... Goblin Sor/Wiz with wand/scrolls of GREASE!
Mhahhahahaah!

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I'm interested in presenting a real challenge to a large group of 3rd & 4th level party members, using Goblins. Here are the restraints I'm placing on myself;

2) I cannot add class levels to the gobs. So it's feats, skills, tactics, very low-level magic. I can make a couple of exceptions for sergeants and leaders, but that's it. I want the PCs to be challenged by 1HD Gobs, not their 5HD masters.

Why? There's no reason you can't use 3rd-level goblins (and their masters could be higher than 5th-level). In fact, the highest-level goblin around might not be the master, if he has low Int and Cha.

This is 3e, and that's one of the things that makes 3e cool.

 

[ARandomGod]

What about making effective ranged Gobs? That seems like it will be important.

There have been a lot of good ideas here.

Effective ranged? That's easy. Almost ANY ranged weapon is hyper effective in large groups, and the Gobs are small so they're all an additional +1 to hit.

I notice a lot of people meantioning rogue (which can be great). I was thinking you wanted no PC type class levels at all, but if we're removing that section, don't forget to throw in several sorcs.
First level spells known: Grease and Magic Missile
Cantrips: Ghost Sound, Mage Hand, Dancing Lights, and Message

Grease appropriately applied can be devastating. Magic missiles, from a contingent of sorcs, could not only threaten but possibly kill PC's (so depending on the number of sorcs, you might have to artificially spread out their targets). That's not only a challenge but a real threat.

Then, since people have meantioned harrassing the party, the cantrips come into play at night. Message is particularly interesting, as a first level sorc can whisper into the ear of the (trying to sleep) spellcaster of the group for ten minutes (Edit: per casting of the spell at first level) at up to 110 feet away. A small group of sorcs can keep this up all night, sounding like someone's right there, next to you... threatening, laughing evilly, insulting, etcetera. Then mage hand. You've got to get closer, but small things appear or dissapear. Ghost sound to accompany the mage hand can make an effective lure or distraction to the sentry. Or even better can make the sentry wake up the party for an attack he just 'heard' coming. Dancing lights thrown in for more distraction and fun.

 

[Slobber Monster]

One thing I have done before is to make some of the goblins rogues, but with non-elite stat arrays and gear only equivalent to standard goblin warriors. (A CR 1 NPC 1st level rogue would normally have like 900 GP worth of gear as I recall). This weakens them enough to keep them at CR 1/3 with the warriors, but gives them some neat goblin-like things to do. I also like to mix in traps with a goblin encounter - so eight goblin warriors behind cover with a CR 2 spiked pit trap in front makes a decent EL 4 encounter. It also gives the rogue something to do with Search that cannot be accomplished with a take 20.