Making Magic Magical Again?
- Thread starter Jack7
- Start date
TrippyHippy
Hero
The one thing I don't like about the various blasting 'At Will' powers is that because they are so easy, and unconsequential to the caster, that a fair amount of the mystery is lost from the game. I want the casting of magic to be taxing in some way, or at least be an issue of resource management (as it was).
I'd like spells to be quite hard to find, and written in dusty old tombs - awaiting an adventurous Mage to discover in some old ruins somewhere. I'd like it if a character's spell list was built up slowly over time, and that spells were given interesting, colourfully descriptive names.
I'd also like to move away from simply describing effects, and actually put in a bit of paradigm around the way magic works. It doesn't have to be complex, I mean the notion of Vancian magic (complex formulas stored in mind), is actually a paradigm as such, as is a Cleric calling upon a god. But if we are to have different magic classes, and systems, have them being described in ways that are less gamist and power-application driven. Encourage a teeny bit of philosophy to come into the game.
I'd also like some more creative rules for designing magical items and new spells - although this could be held back for later books outside of core.
I'd like spells to be quite hard to find, and written in dusty old tombs - awaiting an adventurous Mage to discover in some old ruins somewhere. I'd like it if a character's spell list was built up slowly over time, and that spells were given interesting, colourfully descriptive names.
I'd also like to move away from simply describing effects, and actually put in a bit of paradigm around the way magic works. It doesn't have to be complex, I mean the notion of Vancian magic (complex formulas stored in mind), is actually a paradigm as such, as is a Cleric calling upon a god. But if we are to have different magic classes, and systems, have them being described in ways that are less gamist and power-application driven. Encourage a teeny bit of philosophy to come into the game.
I'd also like some more creative rules for designing magical items and new spells - although this could be held back for later books outside of core.
Ahnehnois
First Post
I would add costs to some spells. Not spell slots/spell points/stamina. And certainly not XP. But costs. Didn't haste used to age you after you used it? Costs like penalties and damage to the caster, and story-based costs. I would change resurrection so that the character being resurrected didn't always come back right. I would increase the chance of teleport error.
I would add a system for making weird versions of spells with arbitrary restrictions. What about a Hold Person that can only be used on a male target, or a polymorph that only works under a full moon?
I would emphasize the rarity of spell components, and not assume that every wizard carries around a bag of bat crap.
I would add into each spell entry a DC to find or learn the spell, and not assume that everything is accessible. Some spells would be very rare.
I would emphasize classics from real mythology that have been underutilized in D&D, like love potions and voodoo dolls. I would include mechanical effects bsed on real-world superstitions (what if black cats were actually bad luck?).
For magic items, I would simply cut "big six" type stuff and enhancement bonuses and reduce the assumed volume of treasure. The rest takes care of itself.
I would add a system for making weird versions of spells with arbitrary restrictions. What about a Hold Person that can only be used on a male target, or a polymorph that only works under a full moon?
I would emphasize the rarity of spell components, and not assume that every wizard carries around a bag of bat crap.
I would add into each spell entry a DC to find or learn the spell, and not assume that everything is accessible. Some spells would be very rare.
I would emphasize classics from real mythology that have been underutilized in D&D, like love potions and voodoo dolls. I would include mechanical effects bsed on real-world superstitions (what if black cats were actually bad luck?).
For magic items, I would simply cut "big six" type stuff and enhancement bonuses and reduce the assumed volume of treasure. The rest takes care of itself.
MichaelSomething
Legend
keterys
First Post
I'm not sure some of the things that were magical years ago would seem so now.
I mean, I remember some hilarious craziness when we got a decanter of endless water. And one guy who loved his +1 unbreakable staff (which I think the DM just made up and winged whenever he tried to use it to block stuff or whatever).
And, whoa boy, rods of wonder.
But it's more old hat nowadays. I'm not sure we'd see the same reactions.
If you thought about the items from any edition that really felt magical, what leaps to mind? Maybe narrowing the field to what work(s/ed) will help.
Edit: I typed too slow, previous post's blog captures the first chunk of what I said pretty much
I mean, I remember some hilarious craziness when we got a decanter of endless water. And one guy who loved his +1 unbreakable staff (which I think the DM just made up and winged whenever he tried to use it to block stuff or whatever).
And, whoa boy, rods of wonder.
But it's more old hat nowadays. I'm not sure we'd see the same reactions.
If you thought about the items from any edition that really felt magical, what leaps to mind? Maybe narrowing the field to what work(s/ed) will help.
Edit: I typed too slow, previous post's blog captures the first chunk of what I said pretty much
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Jack7
First Post
That's what I mean. I don't think it could be done like it has already been done. Maybe, but I'm skeptical. When I use the term "again" I don't mean as in "once again emulating" (a past condition.)
I'm skeptical that would work. It might. An awful lot would depend upon how the entire system of magic works.
TrippyHippy
Hero
There was a brilliant article in a really old copy of White Dwarf from 1987 - it's the one where they first introduced Warhammer 40K to the world - about Vancian Magic.
The gist of the article was that Vancian magic as written about in the Dying Earth books was vibrant and colourful, but that the D&D system was not. Now, since then we've actually had a complete Dying Earth game written, while I also think that Ars Magica somewhat revolutionised the way magic systems were designed in a game. But all it really boils down to is using suitably atmospheric language to describe paradigms that make players think about magic a bit more deeply, whilst also allowing a little bit of sponteneity to keep players creative.
If D&D could do that, it would be magical in itself.
The gist of the article was that Vancian magic as written about in the Dying Earth books was vibrant and colourful, but that the D&D system was not. Now, since then we've actually had a complete Dying Earth game written, while I also think that Ars Magica somewhat revolutionised the way magic systems were designed in a game. But all it really boils down to is using suitably atmospheric language to describe paradigms that make players think about magic a bit more deeply, whilst also allowing a little bit of sponteneity to keep players creative.
If D&D could do that, it would be magical in itself.
Niccodaemus
First Post
I just wrote a post on my blog on this the other day. I think one way is to stop trivializing magic with things like magic shops or the idea of selling found magic items.
Shatterworld: Behind the Scenes: Putting the Magic back in D&D
Shatterworld: Behind the Scenes: Putting the Magic back in D&D
molepunch
First Post
I suppose the way to make magic special again is to limit it severely in all scopes. Perhaps each official setting will have its own "dial" in 5E, fingers crossed
On a side note, in a high magic setting mundane fighters and rogues doesn't quite gel right for me as heroes. (my favo class is Fighter)
On a side note, in a high magic setting mundane fighters and rogues doesn't quite gel right for me as heroes. (my favo class is Fighter)
RangerWickett
Legend
1. It helps when you're seeing the game for the first time.
2. It also helps if the language around magic is more elaborate, less mechanical. I feel like you could mix the precision of 4e with a strong bundle of flavor.
If you're doing 'dials of complexity,' you may as well allow dials of magicalness. Wizards in Harry Potter can fling spells constantly, and magic still is wondrous, so I don't think 'at-will' inherently means mundane. I think what's key is that there should be new things to discover. Surprises, and things that work in ways you aren't used to and so can't really expect.
2. It also helps if the language around magic is more elaborate, less mechanical. I feel like you could mix the precision of 4e with a strong bundle of flavor.
If you're doing 'dials of complexity,' you may as well allow dials of magicalness. Wizards in Harry Potter can fling spells constantly, and magic still is wondrous, so I don't think 'at-will' inherently means mundane. I think what's key is that there should be new things to discover. Surprises, and things that work in ways you aren't used to and so can't really expect.
