Making Mega-Dungeons...

[nikolai]

I want to cast about for advice on how to do this.

What I mean by a mega-dungeon is something like Moria. In the standard D&D dungeon (the Forge of Fury, the Crater Ridge Mines, etc.) when the adventure finishes the PCs have - more or less:

1) explored everywhere within the dungeon, and
2) are the only living things left inside.

They may miss the odd room out and a couple of monsters may have escape evisceration, but I think the above is pretty much correct.

So how do you design a dungeon which is so big as to make detailed maps impractical and which has a population of monsters that makes stating them all out and then hacking through them room by room not possible? This can't be done the way dungeons are normally done - any advice?

yours,

nikolai.

 

[WizarDru]

So how do you design a dungeon which is so big as to make detailed maps impractical and which has a population of monsters that makes stating them all out and then hacking through them room by room not possible? This can't be done the way dungeons are normally done - any advice?

Use the random dungeon generation tables in the DMG, and just keep linking as the players go. Override the results when they cause too many dead-ends, and have random events like cave-ins, natural gas explosions and earthquakes to rearrange it (as well as Delver, Xorn, Thoqqua and even evil cleric intervention).

 

[Methuslah]

I would actually recommended against random generation on a large scale. The key to a large dungeon is to keep it interesting - it is useless if you only use it once, and to use it more the players' interest must be sustained. There is an article on Almanac One on just this subject - see my sig.

Richard Tongue,
Transfinite Publications,
http://www.transfinitepublications.com
**Almanac One is Out!**
**Buy it here: http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=1856 **

 

[spunky_mutters]

When I have made dungeons of this size, I usually break it down into a series of steps.

1. Basic concept for the main dungeon.

(abandoned mine, dwarf city, crazy wizard maze, natural cave system, etc.). This will tell me how it got there, even if none of the current inhabitants were involved in building/creating it.

2. Entry/egress points.

The players may be entering from the surface (or the city sewers, or a gate they've found in some baddy's house), but there are probably other ways out of a complex this large.

3. Based on step 1 and 2, what are the main areas of the dungeon, and who/what lives there?

(not rooms or encounter areas, but thematically distinct sections). The undercity might have catacombs, sewers, ruins long built over, natural caverns that creatures have dug into/from. This lets me break things up into manageable chunks. Depending on step 2, the neighbours might have laid claim to different areas, or there might be power struggles going on within the dungeon. If you want to maintain any illusion of consistency, there's either going to be an 'alpha' monster or monster group in each area, or ongoing conflict. The residents of a section will either learn to live with that monster, or move out (or get wiped out/enslaved, etc.).

4. Mapping. An overview map that breaks out locations of each section and movement between them (and in/out of the dungeon) should be drawn up or just sketched out.

5. Section by section adventures. As players move through the dungeon you can fill in each section. Keep notes and if possible maps on upcoming sections, but you don't need to fill in the details until the threat of PCs exploring a given section approaches.

6. ???

7. Profit!

Or something like that.

 

[Voadam]

Treat it like a city, with great halls and open streets, just there is a roof instead of a sky. Probably needs a river for water.

 

[Shallown]

I would do it much the same way I design a country side. To me it is a different enviroment but due to the scale you want it is designed more like a small nation section of countryside. You need villages, means of support/food, politics, etc...

Decide what type of environment it is as far as Mines, Underground city, Natural caves connecting different sections, this will help shape your map.

Then populate as needed. Pay special attention to interaction be it political, open warfare, isolation etc.

Conflict is an important factor being a somewhat closed environment makes it diffcult to live, eat and breed as freely.

don't design to much. In this envirnment unlike normal dungeon delves you don't know what direction the characters are heading in at any moment.

Also important, nopt all underground groups/creatures will be willing to fight without a reason. Survival is tough enough without fighting everything they may be much more willing to parley.

Just a few disjointed thoughts.

later

 

[Cloudgatherer]

<snip>when the adventure finishes the PCs have - more or less:

1) explored everywhere within the dungeon, and
2) are the only living things left inside.

This doesn't sound like Moria or a Mega-Dungeon. Sounds like a relatively small dungeon, keep, or castle the party can take over. When I think of a Mega-Dungeon, I think Moria (LOTR) and Undermountain (FR), which cannot be "cleared out" by, well, anyone really.

Otherwise, I think the advice given so far is pretty good.

 

[Praeco]

Try setting up dungeon sections that are somewhat interchangable. For example you might have a prison section, perhaps some kind of ancient bazaar, perhaps the abodes of long-forgotten overlords.

That way if the players go in a direction you weren't expecting them to, you can attach on another pre-built section. This will give you the chance to implement whatever ideas you feel are most appropriate at the given time. The pitfall I see with this approach is keeping things somewhat logical. It may not always make sense depending on the juxtaposition of locations and your skill at creating a segue between the previous and the new location. If you're a stickler for logic and continuity, be careful to explain things in such a way that the transition between sections makes sense. If your more interested in setting the mood from scene to scene. you have a bit more freedom.

 

[clark411]

One key ingredient to the Mega-Dungeon you're wanting is the "percieved point of no return."

These are the places where adventurers pause... the wary turn back and the foolhardy press on without thought of concern. Where a smart adventurer might say "We should come back here later, after we've resupplied." or "Legends speak of this part of this dungeon. Few who enter it return."

These spots are obvious points of change in the environment, and pretty obvious points of change in the manner of beasts encountered.. whether a dungeon library becomes a dungeon crypt, or where there's a great expanse connected by a lone bridge (and across the other side are apparent signs of much more dangerous beasts.

Also, this change doesn't have to be overly ominous. If the party has just decimated an underground clutch of Yuan-Ti cultists and continued into the depths, they could come across ruins of an entirely different group that they haven't even begun to harm or rout. It's a whole new project to deal with, and given their adventures thus far they may be incapable of dealing with it immediately.

The most critical thing to do however, is to create a readily available history or explanation of the dungeon. Let there be clues as to what's going on or what has gone on. Make appropriate stimulus (i don't need to go into detail about how old schoolishly insufficient it is to state "Its a door... You open it? There's a dragon behind it. It sees you.") that details the creatures / obstacles the party will face. Huge clawmarks that run the length of the wall are far more interesting than "spot check... you see a bulette charging you." by and large (assuming the party will still encounter the bulette.

 

[MarauderX]

Moria, eh...

Try scaling everything up by 2 or 3 for simplicity. Do the same for the population of critters that inhabits the place, and have only those types in it, with whatever allies they may have. Then keep track of how many the PCs kill in big battles, and sorta give the hint that although they managed to wipe out 100 of them, it's less than 5% of the total population. Do that by dropping hints with the amount of sound, number of living quarters, quantity of used food, size of armoury, signal horns (say 1 horn per 10 baddies), and let them determine how many are left without showing them. That's about when the PCs get spooked, and tip-toe from room to room to find what they are after.