Tarril Wolfeye
First Post
It's even cheaper in Player's Guide to Faerun: +6000 gp.Krafen said:
Making Permanency more... Permament
- Thread starter Artoomis
- Start date
Black Knight Irios
Explorer
Let us create a feat:
Enchant Creature [Item Creation]
Prereq: Caster level 15
You can enchant a creature with Enchant Creature, Enchant Creature works the same way as Craft Wondrous Item works.
Each ability that enchants a creature takes up an item slot on the body of the creature. Each such enchantment is treated like a permanent magical item, for purposes of dispelling, anti-magic areas, mordenkainen's disjunction.
If you lose the body part the enchantment is bound to, you also lose the enchantment. Regaining the body part does not restore the lost magic.
Pricing follows normal rules for magic items, except that you multiply the market price by 2 to get its true market price, since those 'items' are harder to destroy.
Anyone any suggestions? -Hopefully, you got some, I think it is not perfect yet.
Enchant Creature [Item Creation]
Prereq: Caster level 15
You can enchant a creature with Enchant Creature, Enchant Creature works the same way as Craft Wondrous Item works.
Each ability that enchants a creature takes up an item slot on the body of the creature. Each such enchantment is treated like a permanent magical item, for purposes of dispelling, anti-magic areas, mordenkainen's disjunction.
If you lose the body part the enchantment is bound to, you also lose the enchantment. Regaining the body part does not restore the lost magic.
Pricing follows normal rules for magic items, except that you multiply the market price by 2 to get its true market price, since those 'items' are harder to destroy.
Anyone any suggestions? -Hopefully, you got some, I think it is not perfect yet.
Artoomis
First Post
I came up with this over in House Rules. Note that it is powerful in that you get permanent effects, but you pay the same experience cost as with slotless wondrous items and you burn a feat that only lets you do certain spells. So instead of slotelss items that can (rarely) be destroyed, you get permanent spells that are tough to lose, but with a very restricted list.
PERMANENT PERMANENCY
Prerequisites: Ability to cast Permanency; ability to cast 7th level arcane spells (including the use of Miracle to cast 7th level arcane spells).
Benefit: Whenever a spell that was made permanent upon the caster's person would otherwise end due to a dispel effect, the magic is instead only suppressed for 1d4 rounds. This benefit only applies to spells the caster has done himself, and only to those spells made permanent after taking this feat. In addition, these permanent spells are treated as items for the purposes of eliminating them so that, for example, they get a Will save vs. Mage’s Disjunction. Finally, the experience cost table is replaced by the table below:
Normal: Permanent spells are subject to being dispelled by any caster one level higher than the caster level when created, and they are automatically disjoined just as any other spell would be. Note that Telepathic Bond must be cast upon two creatures, and so in ineligible for this feat.
The below is a comparison of experience point cost of a slotless wondrous item (use activated or continuous) to Permanency’s cost.
XP = Spell Level x Caster Level x 2,000 x Duration Modifier x 2 (Slotless Modifier)/25
That's a fascinating table. I assumed that all are double price for slotless and are "always on" (as opposed to "use activated," which would have no duration modifier) and applied the appropriate spell duration modifier.
That table is how I derived the new costs.
As a side note, it shows how screwed up the table is in the book. I'd say regular Permanacy cost should be perhaps 1/4 of a permanent item - since at high levels they will be routinely dispelled - you can count on it. High levels battles often start with Greater Dispel Magic spells going off on both sides.
PERMANENT PERMANENCY
Prerequisites: Ability to cast Permanency; ability to cast 7th level arcane spells (including the use of Miracle to cast 7th level arcane spells).
Benefit: Whenever a spell that was made permanent upon the caster's person would otherwise end due to a dispel effect, the magic is instead only suppressed for 1d4 rounds. This benefit only applies to spells the caster has done himself, and only to those spells made permanent after taking this feat. In addition, these permanent spells are treated as items for the purposes of eliminating them so that, for example, they get a Will save vs. Mage’s Disjunction. Finally, the experience cost table is replaced by the table below:
Code:
Spell Name New XP Cost
Arcane sight 5,000
Comprehend languages 250
Darkvision 1,000
Detect magic 200
Read magic 150
See invisibility 2,000
Tongues 4,000
Enlarge person 350
Magic fang 350
Magic fang, greater 2,500
Reduce person 350
Resistance 200Normal: Permanent spells are subject to being dispelled by any caster one level higher than the caster level when created, and they are automatically disjoined just as any other spell would be. Note that Telepathic Bond must be cast upon two creatures, and so in ineligible for this feat.
The below is a comparison of experience point cost of a slotless wondrous item (use activated or continuous) to Permanency’s cost.
XP = Spell Level x Caster Level x 2,000 x Duration Modifier x 2 (Slotless Modifier)/25
Code:
Spell Name Item Experience Point Formula Item XP Perm XP
Arcane sight (3 x 5 x 2,000 x 2 x 2)/25 4,800 XP 1,500 XP
Comprehend languages (1 x 1 x 2000 x 1.5 x 2)/25 240 XP 500 XP
Darkvision (2 x 3 x 2000 x 1 x 2)/25 960 XP 1,000 XP
Detect magic (1/2 x 1 x 2000 x 2 x 2)/25 160 XP 500 XP
Read magic (1/2 x 1 x 2000 x 1.5 x 2)/25 120 XP 500 XP
See invisibility (2 x 3 x 2000 x 2 x 2)/25 2000 XP 1,000 XP
Tongues (3 x 5 x 2000 x 1.5 x2)/25 3,600 XP 1,500 XP
Enlarge person (1 x 1 x 2000 x 2 x 2)/25 320 XP 500 XP
Magic fang (1 x 1 x 2000 x 2 x 2)/25 320 XP 500 XP
Magic fang, greater (3 x 5 x 2000 x 1 x2)/25 2,400 XP 1,500 XP
Reduce person (1 x 1 x 2000 x 2 x 2)/25 320 XP 500 XP
Resistance (1/2 x 1 x 2000 x 2 x 2)/25 160 XP 500 XPThat's a fascinating table. I assumed that all are double price for slotless and are "always on" (as opposed to "use activated," which would have no duration modifier) and applied the appropriate spell duration modifier.
That table is how I derived the new costs.
As a side note, it shows how screwed up the table is in the book. I'd say regular Permanacy cost should be perhaps 1/4 of a permanent item - since at high levels they will be routinely dispelled - you can count on it. High levels battles often start with Greater Dispel Magic spells going off on both sides.
Last edited:
Lord Pendragon
First Post
Interesting feat. So it would seem:
pros: Bypass gp cost, bypass crafting time.
cons: Only usable with certain spells.
So in the case of Arcane Sight that would be (I think) a savings of 60,000gp and 4 months of crafting time?
Hmmm. I don't know. As a DM, I wouldn't mind the crafting time circumvention, but that's a lot of gold. Granted, that's the most expensive spell on the list, but IME it's also the most desirable.
For myself, I'd probably require the PC to pay at least a portion of that gold, in the form of a material component of some sort.
pros: Bypass gp cost, bypass crafting time.
cons: Only usable with certain spells.
So in the case of Arcane Sight that would be (I think) a savings of 60,000gp and 4 months of crafting time?
Hmmm. I don't know. As a DM, I wouldn't mind the crafting time circumvention, but that's a lot of gold. Granted, that's the most expensive spell on the list, but IME it's also the most desirable.
For myself, I'd probably require the PC to pay at least a portion of that gold, in the form of a material component of some sort.
