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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DrSpunj" data-source="post: 1367812" data-attributes="member: 994">Good, that makes this discussion easier I think.  Which is their Favored Class, and what we're trying to balance it against according to the Core Rules, right? Aside from the Sorcerer, let's go back to the Rogue you bring up. They get an additional -2 Str over a Halfling, so in normal light they get -1 attack and damage, that's true. In bright light they get an additional -1, so Halflings are ahead here too (though I don't know how many Rogues commonly do their nasty work in sunshine or a Daylight spell). Now, if in darkness it went a couple points the other way, this would be balanced. However, taking everything you're offering the Kobold Rogue, they end up with huge bonuses in the dark. Why? Darkness, Concealment and Sneak Attack. While a Halfling Rogue would likely get killed in natural darkness, the Kobold is in his element. His Darkvision denies his opponent Concealment, allowing him to apply his Sneak Attack damage to an effectively blind opponent. A -1 to attack (from the additional -2 Str penalty) here becomes a damage equal to WeaponDmg -1 (minimum 1) + SA (minimum 1 per d6), for a minimum of 2 (could be +6!) at the first couple levels then rapidly scaling from there. -1 for +1 is a Power Attack trade at 1st & 2nd level, and beyond that it's a price well worth paying. Furthermore, the Ability mods total 0 for the Halfing & Gnome, while the Kobold ends up with a net +2. In Dex and Int that's useful to nearly every class but especially the Rogue, and +2 to Cha for their Favored class is golden. Even if Cha wasn't your thing for your Kobold Rogue, that bonus does allow you to move 2 points over to help your Strength out. Buying a 14 Str under point-buy doesn't lose you anything (not like buying a 15 or higher does), and with a -4 the Kobold still ends up without a Str penalty. Finally, I think I've brought this up before with you in other discussions about the Half-orc, but I don't believe Strength is worth more than the other abilities in a well-balanced campaign (combat, roleplaying, puzzles, etc.) and therefore a change in Strength does not merit a greater change to the mental stats, IMO. YMMV.  If the Kobold had the typical Darkvision range of 60' like most other races including Dwarves, Half-orcs, Orcs, the MM's Kobolds, etc, then I might agree you. As it is, the additional +30' translates into quite a bit power for most classes. Sticking with the Sorcerer, starting a combat at 90' vs 60' means it's quite likely the encounter could end with a good Medium range spell before the enemy is able to close, even with a charge. For the Kobold Rogue, scouting in the dark and being able to see your opponent before they have any chance of seeing you is a tremendous advantage(reference party sneaking up on orc campsite at night here <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />). Only a Dwarf or Half-orc Rogue could even attempt such a manuever without some form of light, and then the Darkvision ranges are equal at 60', so everyone involved is at least on equal ground.  Agreed. As I said before, it's a wash. Still, no feat gives +3 to AC (nor +2 for that matter), let alone something a Human could take at first level, and with this plus their Small size and the +2 Dex, every Kobold starts off naked with a base 15 AC. No matter what class you'd make me choose, sign me up! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> Now I know you didn't want to focus on Magic Items, but I think it's pretty telling here that the Halfling's major bonus in this category is equivalent to a Cloak of Resistance +1 for a mere 1000gp, while the Kobold's bonus is worth either 8000gp (+2 Amulet) or 18000gp (+3 Amulet). <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f631.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":eek:" title="Eek!    :eek:"  data-smilie="9"data-shortname=":eek:" />  *cough* Excuse me? Really? Shine? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f615.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":confused:" title="Confused    :confused:"  data-smilie="5"data-shortname=":confused:" /> Let's ignore the Kobold's Trapmaking and Miner bonuses for now, as they aren't worth diddly for the most part. That leaves both the Kobold and the Halfling with +2 Listen, something good for all PCs. +2 Search is something most all PCs would also enjoy, probably quite a bit more than +2 to Climb, Jump or Move Silently, but let's say anyone of those is a fair trade. That leaves +2 to two of those other skills the Halfling gets. Are you telling me if I gave you the choice of +2 Int, which yields enough skill points at 1st level to cancel out the remaining Halfling bonus (if they're class skills, or 4 skill points of your choice if they're not) and gives a +1 to a respectably number of Int-based skills plus an extra skill point per level (a large part of the Human's perks, and no feat gives you +3 AC), you'd rather take +2 to two of Climb, Jump and Move Silently? Really? Should we start a Poll thread? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /> Sorry, I'm not trying to be harsh, but I think this point ends up firmly on the side of the Kobold. Oh yeah, now let's add back the +2 to Craft and Miner that we ignored before. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />  Good! We agreed on something! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />  That's two! But I think this is where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.  Nope, not at all. Nifty, really. But what does the Halfling have on his side again? So I've got a Kobold Rogue being even or slightly ahead for Ability scores & his Natural Armor bonus, with solid pluses over Halfling Rogues for Darkvision, Skills, Speed and his minor Spell-like Abilities, with a solid point on the downside for the Light Sensitivity. Still seeing the Kobold at a +1 for Favored Class Sorcerer OR Rogue. BTW, I was serious up above: if this is campaign's Kobolds, when my PC dies/retires, I'm coming back as a Kobold, no question. It's that good, Nail. Thanks. DrSpunj</blockquote>

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