D&D 5E making the Sorcerer an "Elementalist" - custom spell lists

[Quickleaf]

The more I think about this, I wonder if the Warlock is just flat-out a better "template" for the sorcerer.

If you file off the serial numbers of the Warlock, you could easily swap in origins, metamagic, etc instead of pact, patron, and invocations. The customization allowed from the Warlock class would really fit well for the sorcerer.

I still like the concept of spell points though, primarily as a differentiation between the "arcane" casters (wizard, warlock, sorcerer). I do think mechanical differences are needed to reinforce the "fluff" of each class.

That's definitely a reasonable re-fluffing of the Warlock. I think Bard & Warlock have significant differentiation in their spell lists to be distinguished from a Wizard, and then class features to further differentiate on top of that.

One idea would be to take the Sorcerer's fluff, then design a "simple caster" based on that (like how Fighter or Rogue are often recommended as good choices for new players / players desiring a simpler play experience). I could see a Sorcerer getting only cantrips, possibly unique cantrips, and then empowering/altering/expanding what those cantrips do by spending sorcery points / spell points. That would be the core of the class – super-specialized, not a swiss-army-knife, but flexible in how they adapt their powers. Then there could be features on top of that like "overcasting" or "wild surge." Just a brainstorm.

We play with the Sorcerer knowing the Wizard spell list and increasing the number of spells known (22). It has worked great and made a more enjoyable character.

Initially tried bonus spells but it didn't allow us enough creativity. Then we increased the number and then offered bonus spells as done for the Warlock. You can choose them or leave them.

But when we just added most of the wizards spells to the Sorcerer and increased the number known, it made it easier and less stressful to create characters that we envisioned. We also increased the number of metamagics known and offered it similar as the Warlock gains invocations.

Do you play with a group that just has a Sorcerer? Or do you guys have both a Sorcerer and a Warlock?

 

[ScuroNotte]

Do you play with a group that just has a Sorcerer? Or do you guys have both a Sorcerer and a Warlock?

I am in 2 groups.

In one group, I play a Wild Sorcerer (homebrew) in a party of 4. The other 3 are a Eldritch Fighter, Lore Bard, Ranger Beast Master No spells Homebrew. All 10th level.

Another Group is a party of 7 characters of 6th level. I play a Ranger Hunter no spells homebrew. The others are a Weave Sorcerer (homebrew), Fighter Champion, Warlock Great One Pact of Blade (who is considering changing to Hexblade), Lore Bard, Moon Druid, and a Rogue Arcane Trickster.

 

[Quickleaf]

I am in 2 groups.

In one group, I play a Wild Sorcerer (homebrew) in a party of 4. The other 3 are a Eldritch Fighter, Lore Bard, Ranger Beast Master No spells Homebrew. All 10th level.

Another Group is a party of 7 characters of 6th level. I play a Ranger Hunter no spells homebrew. The others are a Weave Sorcerer (homebrew), Fighter Champion, Warlock Great One Pact of Blade (who is considering changing to Hexblade), Lore Bard, Moon Druid, and a Rogue Arcane Trickster.

That is consistent with my experience. I've never seen a party that included both a Sorcerer and a Wizard.

 

[ScuroNotte]

That is consistent with my experience. I've never seen a party that included both a Sorcerer and a Wizard.

A couple of years back we had a 6 party group (I think) that had both, they played twins, one a sorcerer the other a wizard. We were low level but only played less than a handful of sessions. Not enough to draw a conclusion.

No one likes the concept of what the Wizard represents, and will only play the modified Sorcerer. Though we have one who is interested in playing the Bladesinging wizard if her character dies. And that is because she fell in love with Shadow Blade and Steel Wind Strike spells. So if she does play it, she would play it as a fighter mage as opposed to a straight spell caster.


In your group(s), do most play Sorcerers or Wizards?

 

[Quickleaf]

A couple of years back we had a 6 party group (I think) that had both, they played twins, one a sorcerer the other a wizard. We were low level but only played less than a handful of sessions. Not enough to draw a conclusion.

No one likes the concept of what the Wizard represents, and will only play the modified Sorcerer. Though we have one who is interested in playing the Bladesinging wizard if her character dies. And that is because she fell in love with Shadow Blade and Steel Wind Strike spells. So if she does play it, she would play it as a fighter mage as opposed to a straight spell caster.

In your group(s), do most play Sorcerers or Wizards?

Yeah, story-wise, I think the sorcerer concept is rife with potential.

Let's see... my face-to-face 5e group only plays intermittently these days, but consistently has had 1 sorcerer, and no wizards.

On ENWorld, I DM a couple play-by-post games...

Al-Qadim: cleric, monk/rogue, warlock, fighter, rogue, barbarian (with a retired barbarian & sorcerer)

Spell & Crossbones (group in a bit of flux): paladin, bard, fighter/rogue, druid/ranger, wizard, fighter

Witcher: paladin, scout, sorcerer (modified), sorcerer (modified), witcher (homebrew)

 

[SkidAce]

That is consistent with my experience. I've never seen a party that included both a Sorcerer and a Wizard.

Fair enough, but the campaign prior to our current one had a wizard, a bard, a sorcerer, a ranger, and a monk(ninja).

Then the pendulum swung... and the current group is a barbarian, an eldritch knight, a tempest cleric, and a rogue.

 

[Quickleaf]

Fair enough, but the campaign prior to our current one had a wizard, a bard, a sorcerer, a ranger, and a monk(ninja).

Then the pendulum swung... and the current group is a barbarian, an eldritch knight, a tempest cleric, and a rogue.

What were your experiences in the game with both sorcerer and wizard? Did the players simply avoid picking similar spells to preserve their niches?

 

[SkidAce]

What were your experiences in the game with both sorcerer and wizard? Did the players simply avoid picking similar spells to preserve their niches?

They played totally differently, likely from spell choices and fluff/style.

The sorcerer was what you would call a "water of life" wielder, (semi Egyptian flavored for context), had water walking, water breathing, we made acid splash "water or acid" splash, hold person, etc. The custom spells we added were to add cure wounds and create or destroy water from cleric list.

The wizard was more of your classic arcane study type of wizard. With an emphasis on detecting, analyzing and blowing stuff up.

So in effect, one was a controller and the other was more of a striker.

To sum up the answer to your question, yeah, they did choose different spells and styles, they also played them differently in style.

Every sorcerer I have seen, played up the internal/some source of innate power so they felt different from wizards.