Making Whips more dangerous

[JacktheRabbit]

Last night my party had a long drawn out battle with a very skilled whip wielding ogre.

The ogre had levels in warrior and between his reach and the reach of the whip he was quite irritating to defeat.

As the party attempted to attack him he would easily trip attack or disarm them as they tried to enter melee range. Even the party archer was not safe. When he nailed the ogre with his bow the ogre turned and charged him and quite easily attacked the bow and destroyed the weapon (snapped the string).


One problem though throughout the battle.

When the battle was said and done and the ogre was finally dead it turned out that he had dealt maybe 20 points of actual damage to the entire party.

Now there is no way to change this with all the disarming attacks he made. What about the trip attacks? If I had made the whip a +1 flaming whip instead of a +2 whip would the ogre have done 1D6 fire damage on every sucessful melee touch attack attack trip?

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

??

Since a whip is a ranged weapon -- not a reach weapon -- why did you have trouble closing? It doesn't threaten an area and you can't take attacks of opportunity with it (unless you have the Lasher PrC).

Look at the Lasher -- it has the sorts of changes that make the whip effective, though as it stands its ranged disarm/trip ability is pretty good; it isn't designed to deal damage.

 

[kreynolds]

Since a whip is a ranged weapon -- not a reach weapon -- why did you have trouble closing?

I'm wondering that myself.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Looks like a game gaffe last night though I have no idea why they would make a moronic ruling that a whip is a ranged weapon. That is just stupid.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Why then is a spiked chain considered a melee weapon while a whip is considered a ranged weapon?

The whip has 15 feet of reach. The whip does no damage against anyone with even modest armor. The whip cannot be used against someone in an adjacent square.


The spiked chain has a reach of 10 feet. It does full damage against all armor types. It CAN be used against adjacent foes.

Overall the spiked chain is a superior weapon. So why nerf the whip into uselessness by making it a ranged weapon?

 

[RigaMortus]

Why then is a spiked chain considered a melee weapon while a whip is considered a ranged weapon?

The whip has 15 feet of reach. The whip does no damage against anyone with even modest armor. The whip cannot be used against someone in an adjacent square.


The spiked chain has a reach of 10 feet. It does full damage against all armor types. It CAN be used against adjacent foes.

Overall the spiked chain is a superior weapon. So why nerf the whip into uselessness by making it a ranged weapon?

Why did they do it? I don't know... but you could add feats to make the Whip more effective such as "Point Blank Shot". The Whip doesn't have Reach, it has Range with a maximum distance of up to 15 feet. So PBS will also work with it. You can also take Rapid Shot with it, and Precise Shot (not to mention a bunch of other 3rd party "ranged-based" feats that are out there).

I think WotC mentioned they are changing the Whip to a melee weapon with Reach in 3.5. And I thought I read that they will add some sort of rules for using it to "wrap" around things (a la Indiana Jones).

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

*Shrug*. Who knows? Not everything will be optimal.

The whip is weak (though stronger with PBS/PS/RS) ... but I'd consider it unbalanced if it could threaten at 15' range and do real damage (but then, I also consider the spiked chain borderline unbalanced, since in addition to special abilities it's the only reach weapon that can attack at both 5' and 10').

We'll see. I haven't heard/seen anywhere that the whip is being changed for 3.5, but perhaps ...

 

[kreynolds]

Looks like a game gaffe last night...

Yup, but it's pretty common, so no big deal.

...though I have no idea why they would make a moronic ruling that a whip is a ranged weapon. That is just stupid.

Two things...

1) The gaffe was pretty moronic (if that puts your harsh words into perspective Just kidding, but seriously, its a common mistake, so no big).

2) The Whip: I really don't get the feeling that the design intent behind the whip was to make it just as effective in dealing damage and controlling an area as other weapons do. I think the intent was to make it more of a utility than anything else, such as ranged trips, disarms, etc. It's just convenient that the combat rules work so well with the mechanic they had in mind for the whip. Other than that, it really isn't an effective "traditional weapon", but neither do I think was it ever meant to be.

I think many people just overlook that.

Now, a razor whip...that's cool.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

How about the other question.

If a I trip you with a +1 flaming whip do you take 1D6 damage on the touch attack from the whip?

 

[andargor]

I second the Lasher recommendation. Plus, with a Large Whip and some ranged threat feats, and maybe Large and In Charge, you can wreak real havoc.

Take a look at this thread

Andargor