Man vs. Machine (d20)

[Vigilance]

I almost titled this thread "Super-man vs. War-machine" but was afraid everyone would think it was some sort of Marvel vs. DC thing.

Anyway, I've been giving a lot of thought to the classic "superhero fights a tank" thing.

I never found these battles very satisfying, where a character fights a vehicle, or even when two vehicles fight one another.

In looking at the starship combat rules in d20 Future however, an idea occurred to me to treat the vehicles as monsters (essentially characters) rather than vehicles.

What does everyone this of this idea?

I think it might actually be more satisfying, with a more traditional "move, attack, mark off hit points" paradigm.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I can't say I would try to do things that way, but if I did...

I'm not too familiar with those D20 rules, but the space-combat wargames Star-Fleet Battles and Starfire both have ways to do vehicle combat in which, instead of HP, you mark off system damage.

 

[ValhallaGH]

That's basically how Mutants and Masterminds does it (though not quite). It's worked pretty well for the times I've used vehicles as opposition to various heroes. Interesting and memorable encounters until someone disintegrates the gunship's tail rotor or rips the turret of the tank to club another tank.

Still, it would work well in the super- combat arena, where characters are actually supposed to come into direct combat with powerful war machines.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

For that matter, Battletech does things this way as well.

Hell, come to think of it, you could design a whole RPG's damage system around this. More "HP" means more "dots" on your PC's or vehicle's silhouette.

Hmmmm.

 

[Vigilance]

Well, I specifically don't want to get away from Hit Points, and I dont think I want hit points for specific hit locations, because that would run counter to the goal:

I want fighting a tank to feel like fighting anything else. If the systems diverge too much, the familiarity goes away, which makes the combat run slower and less smooth.

Also, d20 combat is just plain satisfying and that's a big part of what I want. I want that "yes! I hit the tank for max damage and it fails its Fortitude save for half damage!" vibe.

 

[mikelaff]

That's basically how Mutants and Masterminds does it (though not quite). It's worked pretty well for the times I've used vehicles as opposition to various heroes. Interesting and memorable encounters until someone disintegrates the gunship's tail rotor or rips the turret of the tank to club another tank.

.

Agreed. It's very similar to how I understand MM vehicle rules - and its worked pretty well in my regular MM game - with that same pitfall.

 

[Vigilance]

Agreed. It's very similar to how I understand MM vehicle rules - and its worked pretty well in my regular MM game - with that same pitfall.

Im confused as to which part you're referring to.

Are you saying M&M does vehicles like Battletech? Or it does them like normal characters?

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I almost titled this thread "Super-man vs. War-machine" but was afraid everyone would think it was some sort of Marvel vs. DC thing.

Anyway, I've been giving a lot of thought to the classic "superhero fights a tank" thing.

I never found these battles very satisfying, where a character fights a vehicle, or even when two vehicles fight one another.

In looking at the starship combat rules in d20 Future however, an idea occurred to me to treat the vehicles as monsters (essentially characters) rather than vehicles.

What does everyone this of this idea?

I think it might actually be more satisfying, with a more traditional "move, attack, mark off hit points" paradigm.

Aren't the mecha rules in d20 Future basically working like this? The suit just grants you a bonus to hit points, and you can slug it out like characters. You might use that as a starting point.

I, too, prefer using character rules for vehicles, but it still requires work to get it right...

Dang. Now I want to create space combat rules for 4E! Again will I waste countless hours on a space combat system I'll never use!

 

[Vigilance]

Aren't the mecha rules in d20 Future basically working like this? The suit just grants you a bonus to hit points, and you can slug it out like characters. You might use that as a starting point.

I, too, prefer using character rules for vehicles, but it still requires work to get it right...

Dang. Now I want to create space combat rules for 4E! Again will I waste countless hours on a space combat system I'll never use!

The mecha and the starship rules both work that way. I always liked that, despite the occasional wonkiness, such as a nuclear missile's damage being 16d8.

 

[Psion]

I never found these battles very satisfying, where a character fights a vehicle, or even when two vehicles fight one another.

In looking at the starship combat rules in d20 Future however, an idea occurred to me to treat the vehicles as monsters (essentially characters) rather than vehicles.

What does everyone this of this idea?

That would probably work great damage-mechanic wise.

Movement, I might find unsatisfying. Maneuvering in melee/squad combat seems different than in vehicle combat.

Unless you are going for more of a man-analog machine (mecha, etc.), in which case it sounds spot-on.