Mapping programs used by game companies

[msd]

I think that 95% of their consumers don't care about their EULA (they either use it only within their gaming group or don't have a problem with the restrictions).

Fair enough, but that's kind of a meaningless number and a bit redundant to boot - you are effectively saying that "95% of the people who weren't bothered by the EULA to an extent that would prevent them from buying the product aren't bothered by the EULA..." Yeah...I would hope so.

The real number that is interesting is the size of the market that would buy their products...but for (even some changes) in the EULA. How big is the market that they are passing up because of this?

I wouldn't be suprised if they made commercial licenses available, but expect to pay a lot for them (i wouldn't be suprise if they increased the price by a factor of 10 or more)! Photoshop allows you to sell the work you made with it, but this isn't a $40 product. Sure there are free alternatives, but we're not talking here about free alternatives...

Fair enough, but again, in the world of mapping programs, this is way non-standard. CC2, Fractal Mapper, etc. all cost roughly the same and have no restrictions. Now, they may believe that because of their singular art that they are not in the same market as those applications and therefore don't need to stick to those norms, but anecdoctal evidence reading these boards suggests the opposite...people see Dundjinni as a mapping program to be considered as one amongst various alternatives.

Hey, you know what? This isn't even the most annoying thing about the EULA. The most annoying thing:

8. Required Credit

8.1 You must place the approved Dundjinni logo (in the format and size specified
on the Dundjinni website at the time of publication) in the right hand corner of
any map or adventure made with the Software Product (including digital as well as
printed output) that is: (i) used at a tournament or other public contest, (ii) submitted
to a magazine, website, or other media outlet for publication, (iii) posted to a
website (other than the Dundjinni website), or (iv) distributed in more than 10 copies
total.

8.2 Any map or adventure made with the Software Product that is posted to any website
must also include the following link in at least 7 pt font immediately below or adjacent
to the map: “_______(Map, Adventure, or Map and Adventure, as appropriate)________
made with Dundjinni software - www.dundjinni.com”

C'mon...

I bought your software which included your art...and now I have to do your advertising for you? If the art is that much of an important resource to them, then they should price that into the equation...

But to force someone, legally, to provide a "made with..." link back to their site or risk violating the terms of the license is way off the beaten path of EULAs.

IMHO.

 

[Cergorach]

Fair enough, but that's kind of a meaningless number and a bit redundant to boot - you are effectively saying that "95% of the people who weren't bothered by the EULA to an extent that would prevent them from buying the product aren't bothered by the EULA..." Yeah...I would hope so.

The real number that is interesting is the size of the market that would buy their products...but for (even some changes) in the EULA. How big is the market that they are passing up because of this?

An educated guess: around 5% of the market. I'm pretty certain that close to 85% of the users never read the EULA, there are very few computer users who actually read the licence that's provided with their software, especially when it's cheap software.

Fair enough, but again, in the world of mapping programs, this is way non-standard. CC2, Fractal Mapper, etc. all cost roughly the same and have no restrictions. Now, they may believe that because of their singular art that they are not in the same market as those applications and therefore don't need to stick to those norms, but anecdoctal evidence reading these boards suggests the opposite...people see Dundjinni as a mapping program to be considered as one amongst various alternatives.

That might be so, but just because the end user doesn't see (or want to see) the difference between the programs, that doesn't mean there isn't a difference. The problem is that it Dundjini's case it annoys the end users.

Hey, you know what? This isn't even the most annoying thing about the EULA. The most annoying thing:

8. Required Credit

8.1 You must place the approved Dundjinni logo (in the format and size specified
on the Dundjinni website at the time of publication) in the right hand corner of
any map or adventure made with the Software Product (including digital as well as
printed output) that is: (i) used at a tournament or other public contest, (ii) submitted
to a magazine, website, or other media outlet for publication, (iii) posted to a
website (other than the Dundjinni website), or (iv) distributed in more than 10 copies
total.

8.2 Any map or adventure made with the Software Product that is posted to any website
must also include the following link in at least 7 pt font immediately below or adjacent
to the map: “_______(Map, Adventure, or Map and Adventure, as appropriate)________
made with Dundjinni software - www.dundjinni.com”

C'mon...

You use their art, their rules, but i asume that it's only if you use their artpacks, not if you use art you made yourself.

I bought your software which included your art...and now I have to do your advertising for you? If the art is that much of an important resource to them, then they should price that into the equation...

Would you want to pay $60 or $80 for it? I'm certain many would not, further raising the price. It's a balance game of price vs. customers vs. rights, and they want to balance it in the best way so they would reap the most benefits (ie. most money). They clearly have a standpoint that says that they feel that if they don't regulate the use of their art they loose money (or maybe their artists want more money if the art is used for commercial gain by anyone one besides the folks at Dundjini). I might not agree with that standpoint, but i understand it, i also understand your point of view, but there's no way to proof that either is right or wrong...

But to force someone, legally, to provide a "made with..." link back to their site or risk violating the terms of the license is way off the beaten path of EULAs.

IMHO.

Maybe it's a good idea to start your own program, i've sure thought about it...

 

[msd]

Would you want to pay $60 or $80 for it? I'm certain many would not, further raising the price.

I already did...when the app was first offered, that was what it cost. It is only recently that they have reduced the price. So, that price was clearly not ouside the realm of their thinking.

 

[Cergorach]

I already did...when the app was first offered, that was what it cost. It is only recently that they have reduced the price. So, that price was clearly not ouside the realm of their thinking.

The 'old' price included a lot of art packs that you now need to buy seperately, i was talking about the program itself with only the basic stuff, the artpacks would also be more expensive...